Tyviso + Wild

[00:00:00]Rob: Hey Sam.

[00:00:07]Sam: Hi Rob. How are you doing?

[00:00:08]Rob: Yeah, I'm okay. I'm just a bit sweaty today actually. Yeah, I've just moved rooms in my house [00:00:15] because my old home office has been converted into a bedroom for my 1 year old son. So, I've been kicked out and that means I'm now working Tiny, tiny closet room facing into direct sunlight.

[00:00:24]Sam: Yeah, I can barely see you on the screen with all that light.

[00:00:27]Rob: Sweat is actually appropriate though for [00:00:30] today's episode, because we're actually speaking to a deodorant brand.

[00:00:33]Sam: So, you really should be reaching for your own deodorant then.

[00:00:36]Rob: Yeah, probably. But, um, instead of that, I've actually ended up Googling the history of deodorant.

[00:00:40]Sam: Of course you did. Sounds like a totally normal response. What can you tell me?

[00:00:44]Rob: [00:00:45] Well, interestingly, um, it was invented not too far from where you're from, which is….

[00:00:51]Sam: Philadelphia?

[00:00:52]Rob: Right in Philadelphia. Yeah.

[00:00:54]Sam: Oh, quiz me on that one.

[00:00:56]Rob: So it's a woman called Edna Murphy, no relation to Eddie [00:01:00] Murphy I presume, in the early 20th century and she created a product which had this incredible name called Odorono.

[00:01:06] Odorono? Odorono?

[00:01:09]Sam: Odorono. Go on, that's a great name but go on, tell me more.

[00:01:14]Rob: So [00:01:15] it turns out that, that she couldn't actually sell it to begin with because nobody felt that they had a need for it. So she had to create and devise this whole ad campaign that convinced people that sweating was actually an embarrassing problem that they needed to buy a solution for.

[00:01:29]Sam: [00:01:30] Are you saying all this to explain why you're not putting any on?

[00:01:33]Rob: Uh, no. Um, it's definitely time for a spray.

[00:01:36]Sam: Thanks for joining us for another episode of Awin-Win Marketing Podcast where you get to find out what happens behind the scenes of some of the most innovative [00:01:45] affiliate partnerships.

[00:01:46]Rob: And today's episode is a great example of that.

[00:01:49] I'm speaking with the sustainable deodorant brand Wild and one of their affiliate tech partners, Tyviso.

[00:01:55]Sam: Very cool. I actually love to hoard like sustainable and organic skincare [00:02:00] products. Well, I think it's cool. My bank account might disagree, but what is it that Tyviso does?

[00:02:05]Rob: So they are an all in one tech solution for enabling brand partnerships.

[00:02:10]Sam: Hmm, right. So you mean basically where one brand is promoting [00:02:15] another to their customers.

[00:02:16]Rob: Yeah, that's right. This is a relatively novel space in the affiliate industry, I'd say, but it's one where there's been a lot of recent interest. Partly, I think that comes off the back of the retail media trend, which has taken off in a really big [00:02:30] way across the wider digital marketing space.

[00:02:32]Sam: And affiliate brand partnerships are offering a way for advertisers to monetize their own real estate by working with other non-competing brands, which their customers might be.

[00:02:42]Rob: Yeah, that's it, exactly. And Tyviso have been enabling [00:02:45] Wild to do exactly that via a really interesting gift with purchase tactic.

[00:02:49] And they found that to be hugely effective across a whole host of different marketing goals.

[00:02:54]Sam: I do love a gift with purchase. Sounds like an intriguing episode. Let's dive in. [00:03:00] So

[00:03:04]Flora: I joined Wild around two years ago. And my overarching goal at Wild is to acquire new customers at a really efficient CAC through online and offline partnerships.

[00:03:14]Rob: [00:03:15] With me is Flora Jetha, Senior Affiliate and Partnerships Manager at Wild Cosmetics. What was the original premise behind Tyviso and how has it evolved over time to get where you are today?

[00:03:26]Adrian: Pierre, my other co-founder and I are both from a tech [00:03:30] background through Yahoo. So we always worked in digital, but more like a traditional digital background. So PPC, paid search, programmatic, that kind of area.

[00:03:38]Rob: That's Adrian Vella, Tyviso's CEO and co-founder.

[00:03:42]Adrian: At some point we got a case of wine in the post and you [00:03:45] know when you see the offline leaflets of ah like you could get this discount for this brand you can get this.

[00:03:49] It was kind of a an aha moment of no one's really digitizing this process at the

[00:03:53]Rob: moment. So Flora can you give us the context behind your partnership with Tyviso?

[00:03:57]Flora: A key learning that I got from my time at [00:04:00] HelloFresh was that reciprocal partnerships are really beneficial to lower CAC. At Wild, we had an existing setup of being able to offer offline swaps and carry out reciprocal partnerships in the offline world, but we didn't have anything online.

[00:04:14] So it was kind of a [00:04:15] huge area of opportunity. Someone from Awin gave an introduction to a couple of different agency's doing similar things to Adrian and I initially reached out with a rewards page in mind. As an advertiser, we put offers on other [00:04:30] brands rewards page pages and it's really effective for us and costs are increasing all the time and so the idea of kind of building our own rewards page where we were able to swap these placements with other brands was going to be a really effective way to [00:04:45] improve channel performance and acquire new customers at a low cost.

[00:04:48]Rob: Yeah, which is obviously pivotal to your specific role.

[00:04:51]Flora: Yeah, exactly.

[00:04:52]Rob: So why was gift with purchase a strategy that you were keen to explore?

[00:04:55]Flora: It's always such an efficient channel. I think due to the nature of it [00:05:00] being on a commission model, you know that you're only paying for customers that you actually get.

[00:05:05] And affiliates generally people can have kind of a skewed view of it feeling like it could be low quality customers, you know, all the discount code like coupon code [00:05:15] sites, whereas gifted purchase actually, you know, you're partnering with these brands that have the exact same audience demographic to you for us, particularly at Wild, you know, it's a subscription product.

[00:05:24] So ideally we want to find new customers that are already subscribed to other subscription [00:05:30] brands. If you subscribe to one, you're likely to appreciate the convenience of. Yeah. It works well because it's low risk, so it's low CAC, but then also the quality of the customers and the LTV can be really strong as well.

[00:05:41]Rob: Yeah, yeah. So, Adrian, could you describe to us a little bit [00:05:45] about the mechanics of how Gift with Purchase works?

[00:05:48]Adrian: It kind of replaces a traditional upsell, if you'd call it that, so to help you kind of imagine it. You're at a checkout of a retailer, usually, for example, in the case of Wild. Here's some deodorant, perhaps you'd like X, Y, or Z [00:06:00] product with that.

[00:06:00] What we do in this scenario is we find relevant partner brands, so things that match the audience of Wild, and that's a very key part of it. And kind of in that inventory, give them that offer. So, for example, if you buy this deodorant case from Wild today, [00:06:15] you can have a free case of one of that. Or you can have something that is, valuable to that particular user.

[00:06:20] What then happens is the user completes their purchase, and then they receive an email from that part of the brand to go claim it. So it's a very clean process, you know, while it doesn't have to have a lot of products from other [00:06:30] brands in its warehouse, for example, it's a very much like quick, efficient online model of doing it.

[00:06:34]Flora: As I mentioned before, we'd been an advertiser in the Gift with Purchase setup on multiple other campaigns, and we often work directly with brands or through agencies. that the value of Gift with [00:06:45] Purchase has become known. And so these brands that have lots of advertisers wanting to host their offer on their site and now charging really high tenancy fees.

[00:06:55] And of course, then that makes the campaign slightly less efficient, the cash is higher. [00:07:00] So the idea behind becoming a host was that we could Unlock the reciprocal value with my primary goal being new customer acquisition. But then having said that once we launched the channel and discussions went on, it became really clear [00:07:15] that there's actually so many other like key benefits to launching the channel, whether that be like the revenue that you're generating, um, enhancing.

[00:07:24] our existing brand partnerships, and then can also support with wider business goals, whether that's [00:07:30] increasing the number of subscribers versus one time purchase. If we make sure that people can only unlock the gifts if they're subscribing, or try and drive AOV and like, Set a minimum basket value to unlock the product.

[00:07:44] So [00:07:45] yeah, there's loads of benefits to it. But new customer acquisition was the primary one.

[00:07:48]Rob: Yeah. So it's actually something that can be quite sophisticated and targeted towards specific goals, audiences kind of depending where they are and what they might be wanting to achieve. Flora, you talked briefly there about the direct [00:08:00] partnerships that you work with brands in this capacity already.

[00:08:03] And I wondered what made you decide to opt to trial this activity with Tavisa and the affiliate channel and how you navigate it. change in dynamic between certain brands where you [00:08:15] might be working with them in those two different realms.

[00:08:17]Flora: So being in a partnerships role, relationships are obviously really key, but also we're an incredibly high growth company and it's just not really always possible to manage so many campaigns [00:08:30] and so many partnerships all by yourself.

[00:08:32] That's kind of where Adrian came in. I still have direct relationships with a lot of brands and, you know, we'll still pick up conversations around. offline insert swaps or kind of other activities that sit [00:08:45] outside of the Tyviso offering, that I just kind of see Adrian as enhancing and adding an additional touch point to these partnerships.

[00:08:52] Yeah,

[00:08:53]Adrian: yeah. When working with brands such as well, for example, I think the approach that actually works best is somewhat copiloting. There's some [00:09:00] instances where it makes sense for Flora to pick a particular conversation that we execute, or there's other ones where maybe we have a relationship and. We can kind of take it and, you know, you give an approval or a rubber stamp, if you will, my perspective, we're lucky because we're exposed [00:09:15] to lots of different types of conversations.

[00:09:17] We pick up with people as a host of an advertiser. We learned some pretty interesting stuff about what exactly brands want to achieve. What's quite lucky for us. We've got a list about 500 brands we work with. And once we can begin to [00:09:30] stitch those things together, it's quite interesting to say like, well, actually, Wild is looking for this particular thing, another brand is looking for that particular thing, aha moment, this is one that we could be instigating for these guys as well.

[00:09:41]Rob: Mm, is Wild a fairly unique case [00:09:45] of operating? Simultaneously in both manners or methods or

[00:09:51]Adrian: somewhat, it depends on the format a little bit. For example, if you look at the more traditional rewards space, if you think of like an O2 priorities, that kind of thing, and the kinds of offers [00:10:00] that you can use can be slightly more affiliate-esque, 10 percent off or 20 percent off a gift for purchase has to be perceived as a gift.

[00:10:08] We kind of have a rule internally whereby if the offer is kind of 50 percent off or upwards. Am I likely to pick that at a checkout? And is it [00:10:15] more likely to make me complete my purchase? Yes. Would, for example, a 10 percent off at Nike invoke me to complete my purchase? Not necessarily. Would a free deodorant case?

[00:10:25] Yes. So Wild is quite an interesting one where you're in a favorable [00:10:30] position. You do both. And I think that actually creates a very advantageous place to make demands on both sides of the coin as well. Right? Like I'll scratch your back. You scratch mine.

[00:10:38]Rob: Yeah.

[00:10:39]Adrian: That's an option that's available to you, which.

[00:10:41] At this moment in time is not that widespread. [00:10:45] Yeah,

[00:10:45]Rob: it gives you a bit more leverage, doesn't it? I think it's an appetite. Leverage is a

[00:10:49]Adrian: good way of doing it. And again, just more conversation types as well. Right. And or you can bundle in other stuff, which we don't touch for Wild, for example, offline inserts or, you know, how can I create value in other [00:11:00] places for, for my business?

[00:11:01]Rob: Yeah, I imagine given that you have changed from being just a promoted brand into also a promoter host of other brands. That's had an impact on the way that you measure the success of the partnership too, right?

[00:11:13]Flora: Yeah, the goal at the [00:11:15] beginning and what we were benchmarking results against was acquiring new customers at a low CAC.

[00:11:20] So that would come from the reciprocal campaign. And then it became quite clear that we were an early adopter in the space of being a host. So [00:11:30] quite quickly we realized that the way that we measured success needed to shift to revenue.

[00:11:35]Adrian: Yeah, yeah. It's a little negotiation token right at the end of the day as well.

[00:11:39] Like, you know, this is something that we have that we can offer as part of partnerships. Like this is something that we can add [00:11:45] value with. That's quite an interesting point. Imagining those more. Or encompassing partnership conversations.

[00:11:50]Flora: Yeah, definitely.

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[00:12:45]Rob: So were there any particular collaborations with brands that were particularly successful over the last 12 months?

[00:12:51]Flora: Yeah, we've had a few really successful ones. It always tends to be the ones that offer a free trial, or a free [00:13:00] gift.

[00:13:00]Rob: You were saying a case of wine earlier. Yeah, exactly.

[00:13:03]Flora: There's something

[00:13:03]Rob: about the British public.

[00:13:05]Flora: Yeah, our customers love wine. Um, but no, I think two that really stand out are Small and Serious Tissues.

[00:13:13]Rob: Okay, who is Small? [00:13:15] I can work out what Serious Tissues is.

[00:13:17]Flora: They have a very similar proposition to Wild. It's all sustainable, refillable, but like dishwasher detergent and cleaning products. And Serious Tissues is sustainable toilet roll.

[00:13:28] on again on the subscription. [00:13:30] So both of those were offering a free trial. Yeah, we saw really strong results from both of those campaigns.

[00:13:35]Rob: Yeah. So there's a clear affinity there for the, for your audience of customers who have already, by buying your product, you can see that they've got certain principles in mind, maybe more ethically minded.

[00:13:44] And [00:13:45] so those partnerships with brands that have a similar credibility in the space. Are going to resonate well, right?

[00:13:51]Flora: Exactly. Yeah. It wants to be relevant for the customer, but also aligned with the brand and our brand values as well. And just looking at the brands as well, you know, [00:14:00] bathroom products or like household products, they're very relevant.

[00:14:03] So yeah, as a customer is going through our website, purchasing their refillable bathroom products.

[00:14:08]Speaker 5: Yeah.

[00:14:08]Flora: It makes sense to, to tack on something else in the similar space. Yeah.

[00:14:12]Adrian: Yeah. To kind of give a data point reference [00:14:15] for anyone. Once someone claims the offer at checkout and clicks that email, 30 percent of those people went on to buy from Smoll.

[00:14:23] So like that really gives you an idea of like, if you get the affinity correct between the two brands, in [00:14:30] any walk of life, 30 percent is an incredible conversion rate. It's how do you find those partners? How do you find ones with relevant offers? And how do you bring it to life and execute it?

[00:14:40]Rob: Were there any other insights that you came across from working with Wild over this [00:14:45] period of time?

[00:14:45]Adrian: There was kind of three really interesting behaviors that we noticed from the Wild audience. In the first instance, we noticed actually a very proportionally high number of people. 25 percent of Wild's customers selected a gift at checkout, which when you think about it, one in four [00:15:00] people see value.

[00:15:01] From the gifts and checkout. That's pretty incredible. When the customer does select a gift, they're 22 percent more likely to check out,

[00:15:08]Adrian: Which is actually quite impressive as well. And actually shoppers also spend more when they're selecting gift on average, about 3 percent [00:15:15] is the average of the 12 months data that we've seen.

[00:15:17]Rob: Yeah, I mean, when you think about it that way, there are a number of really vital marketing goals that you might be tasked with in terms of website performance, conversion performance, trying to increase the basket values, etc. And [00:15:30] sometimes knowing that you're having to maybe give away direct margin into the form of like a discount is sometimes a harder thing to convince internal stakeholders around.

[00:15:41] And perhaps something like gift with purchase feels like a [00:15:45] more healthy way of doing it in some ways. Yeah.

[00:15:47]Adrian: You don't need to, to your point, you don't need to diminish your own margin. You know, instead you can use a discount from someone else. The key ultimately is how do you provide value to that end customer?

[00:15:58] If you don't, I [00:16:00] can convince that person to point around CRO to buy more deodorant from me because someone else is helping me to do so that's a win for me as a business twice. I'm earning some commission from that more people are checking out on my site. My campaigns are more [00:16:15] efficient because my website performs better.

[00:16:17] Customers are more happy. It's kind of a real big win all round if you can actually nail. the individual partnerships of who's working with who.

[00:16:24]Rob: Yeah,

[00:16:25]Adrian: yeah.

[00:16:25]Rob: Do you find that the gift with purchase tactic is something that is particularly [00:16:30] useful as a subscription based brand?

[00:16:32]Flora: Not necessarily, and not with the way that we use it at the moment, because it's in the checkout page.

[00:16:39] It will be predominantly our one time purchase customers that actually get that value of seeing the gift [00:16:45] because if you're in a subscription, then maybe you'll log in to change your sense and change your plan, but generally, you know, you kind of keep it ticking along in the background, but it's definitely something that we've spoken about and is in the pipeline and maybe to explore with [00:17:00] rewards as well, but You can definitely use gift with purchase and rewards to enhance a subscription proposition.

[00:17:05] Yeah.

[00:17:06]Adrian: You can be dynamic with it as well, which is quite interesting. I think, for example, if while one two, we could do something like if you're a one-time purchaser, here's a certain type of

[00:17:14]Rob: gift. [00:17:15]

[00:17:15]Adrian: If you become a subscriber, here's an enhanced gift.

[00:17:17]Rob: Yeah.

[00:17:18]Adrian: You can be quite clever based on order value or skew or something like that and creating those kind of experiences.

[00:17:24] It depends what your business goals are.

[00:17:26]Rob: Yeah.

[00:17:26]Adrian: Subscription brands obviously tend to hold a slightly different goal in terms it's more [00:17:30] LTV based. Yeah. But you know, any kind of site that has a checkout. can run this kind of unit again, it's just finding stuff that's valuable to that user.

[00:17:37]Rob: You intimated just there about like how you might be working in the future.

[00:17:41] And that was going to be one of my questions to you, actually, what does this partnership look like [00:17:45] in 12 months? Are you going to continue to evolve together?

[00:17:48]Flora: Yeah, definitely. So yeah, really keen to launch a rewards page, as I said, to enhance the subscription proposition. And that's kind of definitely a wider business goal of this year for us to increase [00:18:00] the number of subscribers we have versus one time purchase.

[00:18:03] And I think kind of also use it as a way to incorporate into a wider loyalty retention scheme as well, also kind of targeted with increasing LTV. So whether there's something around, [00:18:15] for example, we could offer a free case of wine on your fifth purchase with us and kind of go down that avenue.

[00:18:21]Adrian: Yeah, yeah.

[00:18:22] gamification works really well within that, I think. The key in that particular subscription brand is it's all LTV. Right. It's how do we [00:18:30] keep that person with us for as long as possible? Obviously, it's like as a brand, if you keep sending the exact same message of like, you know, quite somewhat monotonous of like, here's your scent for this month and it's the same email again, if you begin to mix it up and have different types of ways of speaking to your customers, [00:18:45] you're creating more excuses to email them.

[00:18:47] Right. So here's our offer of the week. Here's our offer of the month. By the way, while I've got you, have you chosen your sense for next month? I think it's really interesting how you can take that kind of initiative and [00:19:00] actually make it part of your whole marketing as well.

[00:19:02]Rob: Yeah, yeah. And talking specifically about Teviso's 12 months, what have you got on the horizon in terms of product development or how you're thinking about the future of the business?

[00:19:12]Adrian: It's an interesting one. I think where Wild has done very well is to [00:19:15] kind of come in as an early trailblazer. We needed a lot of kind of like brands who were brave and are willing to turn up and say, this brand partnerships thing is pretty cool, but it's pretty new. Like, let's give it a shot. What I think is now is a lot of the mainstream brands or [00:19:30] the brands, like you really know are beginning to come into the space.

[00:19:33] I mean, as we speak today, we're, for example, launching EE today. So Derek could win the vote. Two priorities literally should go live while we're sat here. That's really exciting. We've got some other very nice [00:19:45] partnerships in the works, some which I can't say until they're actually signed on the dotted line.

[00:19:48]Rob: I can see your wry smile though, and there's obviously a lot coming. Okay, well that's really interesting to hear about both your plans for the future actually, but Um, we like to [00:20:00] round things off in our interviews by just asking what your tips and advice might be for other companies that are looking to enter into the affiliate industry for the very first time.

[00:20:08] So Flora, why don't you kick us off? What would your recommendations be?

[00:20:12]Flora: I'd definitely say quality over quantity. [00:20:15] Initially, it was all about, okay, how many partners can we get on our affiliate network and get as many sales as possible. But yeah, over the last couple of years, I've definitely seen a shift towards the stronger focus on LTV and the [00:20:30] quality of these customers that are coming in.

[00:20:31]Flora: And kind of steering away from the discount code coupon sites and actually curating strong partnerships with brands that have customers that love LTV. really are going to adopt and be long term [00:20:45] customers for your brand as well.

[00:20:46]Rob: Yeah, yeah. And from your perspective, Adrian? I

[00:20:49]Adrian: think my advice would be, affiliate has a kind of reputation for voucher cashback, and I think they have a very valuable role to play.

[00:20:57] But there's lots of stuff in the channel [00:21:00] that's available that I think people don't necessarily realize that's there and can be used. Naturally, I'm very biased, but for example, there's a plethora of tech partners that you can activate and they are, you know, amazing. They can do. [00:21:15] Several different things that traditional affiliate partners can't they're available on the same basis the exact same cost model I would say to sit down and strategize what you want to achieve and then Explore whilst also to flora's point pick quality pick stuff that suits you pick [00:21:30] stuff that works for your goals

[00:21:34]Rob: That's all we've got time for today. Thanks so much for joining us. This is the last episode that I'll actually be leading on this season, but we'll be back in a fortnight's time when [00:21:45] Sam, uh, you're going to be taking the lead for the last time and checking about all things PR.

[00:21:49]Sam: That's right. And it's quite an unconventional one as it features two sides of the same business.

[00:21:53] I had the pleasure of sitting down with LaRue to find out more about how this leading digital PR agency has [00:22:00] successfully incorporated affiliate marketing into its model.

[00:22:02]Rob: If you're enjoying listening to the podcast, please do, please, please, please do pop over to whichever platform or app you're using to tune in and give us a rating and a review, because we really, really appreciate it.

[00:22:13]Sam: We really, really [00:22:15] do. If that wasn't clear from Rob's emphatic

[00:22:17]Rob: Begging

[00:22:18]Sam: Begging, pleading, but seriously, thanks again for listening to Awin-Win Marketing Podcast, where we show you how affiliate partnerships can always offer a win-win. Bye. [00:22:30]