VioVet + Increasingly

[00:00:00]Rob: Hey Sam.

[00:00:07]Sam: Hi Rob.

[00:00:08]Rob: I can see Lily is in the background there. Uh, how's she doing? Your dog?

[00:00:12]Sam: Woof. That's her saying hello. [00:00:15]

[00:00:15]Rob: Um, what type of dog is she?

[00:00:17]Sam: Lily is a black lab mix. Hair everywhere.

[00:00:21]Rob: Yeah, I can imagine. I can, do you know what? The reason that I am asking about Lily is actually because this is a pet related, pet themed episode this week.

[00:00:29]Sam: [00:00:30] Lily, did you hear that? She looked up.

[00:00:32]Rob: So, I was interested in finding out a bit more about the differences between US and UK dog ownership. I went on to the American Kennel Club. Website I’m looking at the most popular dog breeds of [00:00:45] last year. So where do you think? Labrador retrievers come in

[00:00:49]Sam: I’m gonna say top five.

[00:00:50]Rob: It is top five. You're right. They're number two behind which type of dog.

[00:00:57]Sam: Can I get a hint is it a big dog or a small dog?

[00:00:59]Rob: I think they're [00:01:00] small

[00:01:01]Sam: Uh, I’m gonna say it's a French bulldog.

[00:01:03]Rob: You're absolutely right. It is number one is a French bulldog

[00:01:07]Sam: Lily. Come here.

[00:01:09]Rob: But if Lily was in the UK she'd be number one.

[00:01:13] Labrador Retrievers are the number [00:01:15] one choice of dog in the UK.

[00:01:16]Sam: Lily, grab your passport. Let's go.

Sam: Welcome to another episode of Awin-Win Marketing Podcast, where we chat to the people behind some of the most innovative affiliate partnerships.

[00:01:27]Rob: Yeah, that's right. And today's episode was a [00:01:30] chance for me to talk to leading online pet supplies retailer, VioVet, and one of their affiliate tech partners Increasingly.

[00:01:36]Sam: Cool. And what is it that Increasingly does?

[00:01:39]Rob: So they specialize in using AI to power product bundling solutions for online retailers. [00:01:45] Um, and this helps shoppers find relevant accessories that match the product that they're initially buying. And it also helps retailers by incrementally increasing their average basket values too.

[00:01:55]Sam: So it's kind of like the, you might also like this option you see on Amazon product pages. [00:02:00] So if I'm buying Lily a new leash, then it also suggests I might want to get her a matching collar,

[00:02:05]Rob: Which I bet you absolutely do do that. Don't you?

[00:02:08]Sam: Are you kidding me? This dog has everything. She’s got a bed

[00:02:13]Sam: in every room of the house.[00:02:15]

[00:02:15]Rob: That's one of, um, Increasingly these key products and they've made it simpler for retailers of every shape and size to access that kind of novel tech without needing to build it themselves.

[00:02:25]Sam: Sounds like a win-win if you ask me. Let's hear more about this partnership.[00:02:30]

[00:02:36]Sri: So Increasingly, Purpose is actually to help the customer mission so customers not really looking for a product. They're trying to complete something.

[00:02:44]Rob: That's Sri [00:02:45] Sharma, Increasingly CEO and co-founder.

[00:02:48]Sri: They might be trying to get everything they need to take care of their pet. It might be a look if it's in fashion, it might be a beauty regime if it's in beauty.

[00:02:55] And so the technology was trying to solve that problem. How do you help the end customer? [00:03:00] And in so doing, how do you help the retailer? What's the benefit for the retailer? The benefit should be a climb in average order value and more. Revenue. Our flagship product is product bundling and we went from there.

[00:03:12]Meredydd: So we were looking to add [00:03:15] bundling to the site because it had been something on the roadmap prior to even me joining the business.

Rob: That's Meredydd Cormode, Marketing Manager at VioVet.

Meredydd: Where we know a lot of customers come on and they might buy large orders of a single type of product. But we know if we can present that.[00:03:30]

[00:03:30] Bundles people who buy pet food will probably be buying pet treats, toys, accessories, clothes, whatever it happens to be. So we've wanted the ability to group products together and put that front and center for a long time. But we have a bottleneck in the business with development capacity.

[00:03:44]Rob: Yeah.

[00:03:44]Meredydd: [00:03:45] So I actually learned about Increasingly at the performance marketing awards that sounded like it would tick a box.

[00:03:52] And after a bit of internal conversations, we were able to green light. Getting them on board to see a bit of a proof of concept and tick off that long [00:04:00] desired feature on site. In a relatively low development resource. Yeah, yeah.

[00:04:05]Rob: I mean, Matt Wood who runs the awards in the industry will be absolutely ecstatic at the fact that the awards ceremony was a means of discovering a new partnership.

[00:04:13] Absolutely. Perfect. You can send me an invite. [00:04:15] Exactly. So Sri, can you share with us how Increasingly's tech works for a brand like VioVet?

[00:04:22]Sri: Sure. So Increasingly's product bundling is an on-site technology. It's a combination of fantastic UX that is hyper [00:04:30] fast. And convenient for the user and the machine learning algorithms, which do the job of providing relevancy.

[00:04:36] So you should see the right things going together and particularly for via vet. It was about recognizing that they have a very large skew can large number of [00:04:45] products. They have nuances. Like, for example, you can't show certain products because they're pharma products. And being able to take into consideration all of those and still have a SaaS product that's easy to implement, doesn't take dev resource on their end, is our reason for being, [00:05:00] and through that we're able to implement.

[00:05:02]Rob: Yeah, yeah. And Meredydd, once deployed, how quickly did you begin to see Increasingly solution actually have an impact, and how has it performed overall?

[00:05:10]Meredydd: The honest answer to that is there were some teething troubles with it in integrating with the Awin MasterTag [00:05:15] and getting that kind of data flowing accurately between sites so that the algorithm could start learning.

[00:05:19] But I think we, we kind of officially say that we got that done and solved by around October, don't we? And after that, the results were fine. Fairly quick to come in. I think now [00:05:30] we're looking at about an average of an additional product. I think technically 1. 2 products per basket, which is obviously an increase in AOV for us, which is fantastic because it means it's adding that value to the customer's journey.

[00:05:41] They're finding at least one additional product that they find helpful [00:05:45] in that purchasing journey. So that was fairly quick. Once we had them live on site. We did also go through a process of looking at where there were products that either the AI didn't have data to provide recommendation based on customer [00:06:00] usage or where we felt that there might be added benefit in selectively injecting products into those bundles through our own kind of insight in the market and what we think people wanted.

[00:06:10] So we also trialed a lot of those. There was a bit of seasonality in there as well around the Christmas time, [00:06:15] Black Friday, dates like that where we were able to say, okay, These products the algorithm won't know about them because they're only around for a few months of the year.

[00:06:22]Rob: Yeah,

[00:06:22]Meredydd: but we want them to be visible to the customer.

[00:06:24] We want the customers to be able to interact with those and hopefully add them to their baskets. So we were able to get going with those [00:06:30] again very, very quickly. Sri's product marketing team, we work with a guy called Alistair there who was very fast in kind of, Understanding our objectives, taking those SKUs and getting them live within the bundling algorithm for us very quickly.

[00:06:41]Rob: So that's interesting actually. So as an advertiser, you're using the solution in such a way that [00:06:45] it's not like the algorithm and the AI just takes over. But in fact, there's a bit of customization there and you have a bit more control around where you deploy it and how you deploy it depending on exactly where your experience obviously then comes in as a factor I guess.

[00:06:59]Meredydd: Exactly [00:07:00] that I think it's currently somewhere around 80 percent we use the algorithm with around 20 percent manually injected rules and that is both for obviously seasonality like I mentioned things like Christmas there's out of stock solutions that Sri was mentioning where if we don't have a product but we know there is a viable alternative on [00:07:15] site we'll deploy it.

[00:07:15] Use the tool to kind of push that as an

[00:07:17]Rob: alternative. So Sri, on that topic of customization of the Increasingly product, how flexible can you actually afford to be with a client?

[00:07:26]Sri: That's a really interesting question because you got two sides to that. You've got [00:07:30] a team that's building a product and they Don't want to make it to customize because then it's like a dev shop but you've also got a customer that wants to adapt and so then there's a sweet spot between both sides that actually listens hard to what customers are [00:07:45] saying and tweaks so that you can give that customization but still retain the essence of this is a product that does ABC not ABCDEFG etc.

[00:07:54] And that's the journey that we've been through and I kind of talked about it earlier. I think it's really cool when you can go to a [00:08:00] company you can say we can do this. We can still offer you customization, we can handle your nuances, we can work around all those things, but it's still an enterprise grade software that has the highest standards of tech quality and delivery.

[00:08:13] That's pretty cool [00:08:15] and very rare, and so that's, that's really exciting. And I just think it's about finding that middle ground that ultimately demonstrates value for the end customer, real value and benefit, and then real commercial benefit for the retailer. And, and there is that point in the gray [00:08:30] where you can find that, and that's what we've tried to do.

[00:08:32] And then the journey is to do that and extend to more products that continue with that story. Give

[00:08:37]Meredydd: that a physical. Uh, example, we are Increasingly are really keen to get a sort of a slide in basket showing on product pages after you've [00:08:45] added something in and just use legacy reasons. When we boarded, that was something you guys were really keen to get live with us as part of the initial launch, um, tool, but legacy issues mean we can't remove that space because of relationships we have with suppliers and other reasons.

[00:08:59] So you worked [00:09:00] with us. You found a kind of a middle ground that we found new sites for the features that would have been in that basket pop up elsewhere on the site and elsewhere in the customer journey towards that checkout process while it might not be as effective [00:09:15] retains a lot of the benefits.

[00:09:16] But also allows us to keep to previous commercial commitments that we have. So they were really, really flexible

[00:09:21]Rob: around that. Sri, what is the commercial model that you guys work on currently or how has that evolved over time? Yeah,

[00:09:26]Sri: sure. So Increasingly offers two commercial [00:09:30] models. One is commission based that we all know and love.

[00:09:33] Um, and also fixed fee, which also can be tracked through the affiliate network. You just set it to 0 percent commission, so there's no commission tracked. And so with Viva, we started on a commission based model, which [00:09:45] allows for suck it and see and only be paid if it works. And then once we got to a certain point and incrementality was demonstrated as a marriage is shared, then it was moved to, well, what's the ROI and let's fix the fee because then there's certainty [00:10:00] for the advertiser and there's certainty for us.

[00:10:02] And then we've moved to that model and that's a good starting point for a long-term relationship because you've proven value. And you've got to a price that demonstrates a clear ROI and the AI is not done yet still because it's [00:10:15] continuously learning and then there are other, you know, products that can add value.

[00:10:18] So it's been a really great journey with Meredydd and one genuinely trying to add value and then collaborate and that's very cool.

[00:10:25]Rob: Yeah, Meredydd, I'm keen to understand when the business was first exploring this, [00:10:30] how difficult it was necessary to get that internal buy in for working with tech partners in this capacity, particularly through the affiliate channel, right?

[00:10:37] It's not something that. Historically, you might have assumed that you would get from your affiliate program, but Increasingly that is something that we see being adopted by brands. And they [00:10:45] recognize the value of working with tech solutions through the performance channel. So do you know kind of what that journey was like into actually deploying?

[00:10:51] Intimately. Yeah. Okay. Um,

[00:10:53]Meredydd: so that was, yeah, a lot of work internally went into that. I mean, we have a really, really good and very proactive development team [00:11:00] who wanted to, and in the past been very capable of deploying everything on site. So our, our entire site. Is custom built. Not only that, the logistics software on the back end is custom built and they manage all the integrations with external partners, delivery organizations, all sorts of things like that.

[00:11:14][00:11:15] So they are very, very good at what they do, but inevitably you hit bottlenecks with development capacity. Don't you? When you're maintaining a site of our size, Sri mentioned earlier on, we have a lot of products, so that's not only on the front end, but we've got to be physically handling those products on the back end and that [00:11:30] creates a huge amount of strains.

[00:11:30] So I mentioned right at the start, there was a lot of appetite. Or new features and additional features on site, which we felt would be beneficial to the customer journey, but priority was given to things which were revenue impacting to the business and adding [00:11:45] new untested features to the site, while theoretically beneficial to revenue or customer journey or conversion rates was just speculation at that point, and we would need the tool to start testing the impact when we found a couple of tech partners through a win that promised to you.

[00:11:59][00:12:00] Bring some of those solutions and those ideas to life on site for us. Worst case, we saw that as a way to test the solution, see the impact, and potentially build a business case around why this was a priority for the business. And best case, just plug in a [00:12:15] partner and be able to let them run on site.

[00:12:17] Indefinitely, from that point on, which is the route we've ended up going down because of the cost effective manner of it.

[00:12:22]Rob: Yeah, yeah. And then from your side, Sri, what are the common challenges you face in getting an advertiser to actually adopt [00:12:30] Increasingly's tech?

[00:12:30]Sri: So, when we talk to advertisers, there is a subconscious belief Particularly in the e com team and e com director, which there's two.

[00:12:41] Number one, how do I know this product will work? Question mark. [00:12:45] So belief, will it really? I'm not sure. So lack of confidence. And we solve that because we've got evidence from every vertical of customers, as in end advertisers, who've seen the uplift in AOV. The other belief is there's no way I'm [00:13:00] going to get this to go through my dev queue because they're maxed out.

[00:13:03] And so right from the get go, our message is there is a zero dev opportunity to work with Increasingly and the way we unpack that and explain it is how technically we [00:13:15] do it all. But a key part of that is also that they don't have to even put the tag on and the Awin master tag helps. Completely solve that because then they go, Oh, great.

[00:13:27] I don't even need to talk to the dev [00:13:30] team about that. So it's a really, really powerful aspect.

[00:13:32]Rob: Yeah, yeah. That's a great gateway. The containment tag for so many different solutions, I think. It's meant that we've been able to offer so much more to our advertiser clients that doesn't necessarily [00:13:45] actually require us to build it internally.

[00:13:46] We've kind of got this gateway to all of this entrepreneurialism and innovation that's coming from the wider kind of, uh, marketing space, which is fantastic. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:13:59]Sam: Just interrupting Rob for a minute to tell you that Awin-Win Marketing Podcast is brought to you by Awin. You might be listening because you're an ecommerce retailer struggling to grow your brand awareness, generate additional sales, Or maintain your bottom line with marketing and advertising. Using [00:14:15] the Awin platform, these challenges go away as you unlock pay on performance, partnership opportunities, and promotional spaces that reach consumers everywhere.

[00:14:23] Choose which affiliate partners best match your marketing objectives. Control your costs by defining how you pay these partners. [00:14:30] And customize your affiliate marketing program using Awin services. Tech to mirror your unique goals, whatever they may be. Visit awin.com today and start growing your own way with the Awom platform.[00:14:45]

[00:14:48]Rob: I wondered, given the success that you've had with partnerships like Increasingly, has that changed internally the perception of what affiliate partnerships can do for the business, particularly outside of the partnerships or marketing [00:15:00] team?

[00:15:00]Meredydd: It impacted different departments differently. The developer point of view, it was great for them because it took a whole section of, you know, the business badgering them for features that they didn't, just didn't have time to build, and took that away.

[00:15:12]Rob: Yeah.

[00:15:13]Meredydd: So, they loved it from that point of [00:15:15] view. I think from the more kind of commercially minded and the director's point of view, it is and continues to be a very cost effective, first and foremost, way of bringing tools onto the site because we're paying for performance in most cases. And you know, [00:15:30] that's a very safe way for the business to operate.

[00:15:32] There's very little risk involved in that, but equally it allows us to prove the value of these features on site to build future arguments for why we need to add these features [00:15:45] on site organically or expand on the capability of these features. So it's been really, really beneficial both from the commercial point of view and from kind of the, the use case and the business case going forwards.

[00:15:55]Sri: And I think it's really worth adding that sometimes in the affiliate space, [00:16:00] advertisers can live in a bit of a bubble that everything CPA. If they talk to a lot of vendors otherwise, they'll be like, are you joking? Commission based. Are you joking? There'll be a trial period and it's commission based.

[00:16:13] Just, you know, so [00:16:15] actually it's, it's a really powerful benefit. And to be able to have that. Yeah. Um, and to be able to offer that. So I think, uh, it's great that internally they see, they see that as a, as a real benefit.

[00:16:25]Rob: Yeah. And I think like from our perspective at AWIN, it's great to see new solutions being brought to [00:16:30] market, being brought into the channel.

[00:16:31] And I think that it speaks to maybe the conviction that those. Entrepreneurs, founders have about their solution that they're willing to run it on that CPA because they have that absolute confidence that no, this is going to work, this is going to [00:16:45] bring incremental value to you as an advertiser and I'm sure of it and I'm happy to take a bit of a risk myself, a gamble by deploying it and then showing you in the real world tangible outcomes that you'll then be willing to buy into longer term and I think that's, you know, great conviction in a way, so yeah.

[00:16:59] Was there anything [00:17:00] Meredydd that you learned about maybe product bundles that were more effective than you maybe assumed they might have been where the AI was making recommendations of things that should be paired up together that your team internally hadn't necessarily thought

[00:17:11]Meredydd: of? We definitely found a lot of [00:17:15] unusual product, uh, combinations.

[00:17:17] For example, we found that people were buying the large version of a dog food, but then also buying a smaller size of that exact same dog food. Like a travel bag or? Who knows the use case, but there was [00:17:30] enough statistical significance in that that that was something the algorithm was allowed to then recommend to customers and it's continued to be a popular purchase.

[00:17:37] Yeah. So whether those are emergency bags stored away in the cupboard, travel size, they have another tiny dog that you didn't know about. But that was exactly it. You assume if [00:17:45] someone's buying a 15 kilogram bag of dog food. Yeah. They're probably not going to be in the market for a two kilogram bag of dog food.

[00:17:50] That's not something we would, Manually. Yeah. Choose to inject into the algorithm. But actually, it was one where we were pleasantly surprised to see that that was a purchase pattern that was statistically [00:18:00] significant.

[00:18:00]Rob: Yeah. That's really interesting to me. Is that something you see beyond VioVet? That's not a unique instance in that respect.

[00:18:05]Sri: Yeah, we see it elsewhere. I remember a major brand who sells TVs and other electronics. And when we showed them in the bundles that people were buying a large TV [00:18:15] with a small TV rather than the expected TV with soundbar, they were like, well, this has to be wrong. But it just goes to show that middle aged average men would go and buy a TV for upstairs and downstairs at the same time.

[00:18:27] That's basically what it showed. And they concluded [00:18:30] that that is what was happening. That's

[00:18:31]Rob: fascinating. Um, I did want to ask you both really about like the, how the partnership has evolved over time. You talked at the very outset about the fact that you're brought in to specifically focus on this product bundling [00:18:45] solution.

[00:18:45] How, how has that actually evolved from there?

[00:18:48]Sri: Technically for product bundling, there's been enhancements in features, both algorithmic and also in terms of design, iterative. In terms of other product adoption, I think Meredydd will have to add more [00:19:00] because they've had a quality problem, which Meredydd will explain more on no doubt, of their business growing.

[00:19:06] So we have other products that from the same vertical are huge revenue drivers in product collections and Google Shopping bundling. And we [00:19:15] really want to bring them to life. So Meredydd, over to you.

[00:19:18]Meredydd: I might do business development for you actually, so yeah. Not at all. I think what Sri's alluding to there is we have.

[00:19:25] Managed to grow quite well over the last few years and internally [00:19:30] despite the size of the business internally We are all the departments are quite lean Unfortunately, including my own so there is always capacity issues. So We did hit an operational bottleneck last year where we were sort of able to just about handle the volume of inbound sales we had and [00:19:45] we sort of had to put a lid on a lot of the experimental ideas that we had for further driving new customer acquisition and order value and units ordered and things like that because we operationally couldn't handle.

[00:19:55] Which is a nice problem to have from a marketing point of view. There's a lot of retailers out there thinking I'd love to have that [00:20:00] problem. Exactly. Yeah. We, we, we weren't upset by it. We're in the process of moving past those now. So we've moved the business to a new warehouse, increased the foot size, increased staffing counts and all of that.

[00:20:08] So we are hopeful that the next iteration of kind of the website and the technologies, the solutions we're providing to customers is coming in [00:20:15] the future. And that's where a lot of Sri's features that he's, he's, you know, very patiently, uh, reminded me about over the last year and a half probably will come into play because I think there's a lot of interesting ideas there, um, that they're very keen to show us the value of.

[00:20:27]Rob: Yeah, that kind of segues nicely [00:20:30] into what you've most enjoyed about the partnership. What have you most enjoyed about working with Meredydd as a client and as Vivet as a business tree?

[00:20:36]Sri: Personally with Meredydd he's absolutely on it and he understands the technicality the opportunity and also the business case and he's [00:20:45] held us to it and that's professionally excellent and really interesting to me personally secondly also I've just enjoyed as a founder.

[00:20:53] Saying I'm going to do something and then seeing it happen. And that is so satisfying because as a founder, [00:21:00] this is more than just getting, you know, a purchase order and then, you know, signing it off and then on. It's about actually doing what you've hoped to make happen for creating a product and seeing it.

[00:21:09] Take shape and form, seeing it used and seeing it working and that, that's hugely [00:21:15] rewarding. And so for me personally, it means multiple things. It's professional quality of working in the relationship with Meredydd and also actually doing something that's actually adding value, driving impact and seeing that creative journey.

[00:21:28]Rob: And Meredydd, same question to [00:21:30] you.

[00:21:30]Meredydd: Yeah, I was going to say, I think the accountability piece comes in for us as well. Yeah, I mentioned initially there was some teething issues. So we had a very short go live window that was missed and the team were very happy to kind of put their hands up and say, right, leave it with us.

[00:21:42] We're going to problem solve this. We're very honest and accountable to [00:21:45] that. So got that resolved for us. And that level of accountability has continued. Things haven't worked. We've stripped them back. We've tried again, and they always have to kind of test and implement new ideas and new solutions.

[00:21:56] Equally, when we come with a half-baked idea of this is an outcome [00:22:00] we're trying to achieve, could you do X, Y, or Z, you know, we're giving you the idea. Can you build a business case around it? And does your tool support this? If they don't know, they'll say, give us a week, we'll go away. And then they'll come back often, not just with the fully formed idea, but some of the tech work already put [00:22:15] in place.

[00:22:15] And just say, okay, from you, we just need a, B and C. Now we'll have this live for you in a week. So that, that level of kind of turnaround has also been really, really beneficial because again, with a small team where the business objectives can change quite quickly, it means that often the product management [00:22:30] team and just saying, okay, this is the new order.

[00:22:31] This is what we need to achieve in the next few months. How quickly can you guys support on this? And they'll turn around and get that done for us very, very quickly. Every single time. Yeah. That's been really, really helpful. Yeah. Point of view.

[00:22:41]Rob: Yeah. What would be your [00:22:45] advice? To any businesses considering affiliate marketing for the first time,

[00:22:50]Sri: if you're an advertiser and you like the idea of finding new partners, different styles of publishers and technology [00:23:00] partners to grow your revenue, grow your traffic.

[00:23:02] Then it really is quite honestly a no brainer, and so I would definitely get involved and explore and experiment, experimentation is a really big part of business, but there's enough case studies in your vertical, I bet, that [00:23:15] show it can drive value. And

[00:23:17]Rob: Meredydd, from an advertiser's perspective, I guess, what would you say?

[00:23:20]Meredydd: I would say the key would be starting off with what is it you want to achieve. There are a lot of different types of businesses out there that fall under the affiliate network from [00:23:30] cashback vouchers. It's really about narrowing down what will aid your end goal. Obviously, you could get onto some of the largest voucher sites out there and, you know, drive a lot of new customers.

[00:23:42] But if at the end of the day, you're giving away, you know, [00:23:45] 10 percent margin to achieve that through discount codes, you might be undermining the profitability while driving revenue. So I think it's about being commercially aware about what it is you're looking to achieve and what supports your goals.

[00:23:59] And then going out and [00:24:00] finding those partners, I think using a business like Awin makes that very easy for us just to reach out to new people and bring them onto the site. So don't be afraid to try, but be aware of what that might be doing to your bottom line.[00:24:15]

[00:24:15]Rob: Thanks for tuning in today. Sam and I will be back in a couple of weeks’ time with a special live episode. Which we recorded earlier this year at Awin’s ThinkTank US conference in Chicago.

[00:24:26]Sam: We'll be speaking to the sunglass brand Tomahawk Shades and its agency [00:24:30] partner Today's Business about how they've scaled through the use of really savvy influencer partnerships in the professional sports world.

[00:24:36] It's not one to be missed.

[00:24:37]Rob: In the meantime, if you've enjoyed listening to today's episode or any of the others that we've shared so far, please do give us a rating and a [00:24:45] review on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And of course, you can also head over to awin.com/podcast to find out more.

[00:24:53]Sam: As always, thanks so much for listening to Awin-Win Marketing Podcast, where we show you how affiliate partnerships always [00:25:00] offer a win-win. Goodbye.