Boots & Metapic

Rob: [00:00:00] Hey Sam.

SAM: Hey Rob.

Rob: Back behind a screen.

SAM: What do they say? Absence makes the heart grow fonder, and it's definitely the case between the two of us.

Rob: Speak for yourself.

SAM: Yeah,

Rob: I I wanted to ask you a bit about your social media habits today. What is your platform of choice?

SAM: I will say I was very resistant to TikTok for quite a long time.

However, I often find myself going to it more and more for both like doom scrolling and also as a research platform. Anytime I'm thinking about behind something or looking into something, or I want inspiration for something, I now find myself going to TikTok over Instagram.

Rob: I thought doom scrolling was like a consequence of being addicted rather than something you go towards doing as like a hobby?

SAM: No,

Rob: You're an active doomscroller.

SAM: No, I think that just, I sure am. And I think that just gave our audience the answer on your social media habits, which are slim to none.

Rob: I'm a LinkedIn.

SAM: You're a Reddit guy.

Rob: I'm a LinkedIn bro. Yeah.

SAM: Yeah.

You're also a Reddit guy.

Rob: Reddit guy. Yeah. [00:01:00] I'll tell you what I'm quite into at the moment is, YouTube shorts have been a killer for me actually going through that.

SAM: My favorite content as of late, that like really tickles my brain in a good way, is rug cleaning videos. I can't explain it. But there's something so therapeutic and soothing about watching someone take, I, first of all, I wanna know how do these rugs get so dirty?

Like, why are they drenched in mud? Where do they come from? But then to watch someone with a power washer just come through and clean it, it's like the best kind of ASMR and ugh, just like tickles my brain in the best way. It's so soothing.

Rob: We are built so differently.

Hello and welcome back to a Win-Win marketing podcast.

I'm Rob. And this is Sam.

SAM: Hello.

Rob: And today we're gonna be taking you behind the scenes of a partnership that has successfully merged influencer marketing within its affiliate program.

SAM: One of my favorite topics, and you've been speaking to one of the UK's most high profile health and beauty retailers, Boots.

Rob: Yeah, that's right. So Boots were kind enough to drop into the studio with Metapic, who are one of the influencer platforms that they work with to coordinate that influencer [00:02:00] activity.

SAM: It's a real growing trend in the affiliate space. It's a topic we've talked about on the podcast quite a lot, and we're seeing more and more advertisers look for the ways in which they can run some of their influencer activity via the affiliate channel.

Rob, I'd love to ask, what do you think's the motivating factor for that?

Rob: Yeah, I think there's definitely just a desire to make it a lot more accountable to try and tie some of those tangible business outcomes to the investments that they're making in influencer activity. And affiliate tracking and measurement is simply a great way to do that.

SAM: Yeah, definitely. It's no longer simply monitoring clicks and likes, but actually seeing where and how some influencer and creator content is contributing to leads and sales for a brand.

Rob: Exactly. Turning likes into leads, you could say.

SAM: I could say, but it's enough of you and I saying something. No gatekeeping here.

Let's hear how, Boots and Metapic made it work.

Rob: Ellie, if you wanna introduce yourself.

ELLIE: Yeah, so I'm Ellie. I am 29. I don't know if I need, age. I don't know why I [00:03:00] said that

SARAH: I might not stop laughing.

ELLIE: Right, start again.

Rob: That's Ellie Waters, affiliate marketing specialist at Boots.

ELLIE: I went to do a master's in fashion marketing which I absolutely loved, and that kind of spurred on my love for influencers and things like that.

Landed a job at PLT. I was there for around four years, and then went on to become the senior exec there as well. Kind of managing the global affiliate program and then started in Boots at about October, 2023. And yeah, my role is pretty much leading and implementing the influencer strategy as this was a completely untapped area before.

So it was a really exciting opportunity for kind of me to step into, but then also supporting Susan with the day-to-day runnings of the channel as well.

Rob: Yeah. And so you had a bit of a background and experience already in the influencer space from

ELLIE: Yeah.

Rob: The time at PLT,

ELLIE: Yeah, definitely.

So I launched with the partnerships with Metapic, Stylink and LTK.

Rob: Yeah.

ELLIE: So saw firsthand the value that it can bring to a channel and really diversify an affiliate channel as well. It really allowed me to bring that partnerships and those relationships as well across to Boots. So yeah, it seemed like a really seamless integration.

Rob: Brilliant. Sarah.

SARAH: Sorry,

Rob: You're thinking about what's my age? [00:04:00]

SARAH: Oh my God, sorry. I might start laughing just randomly throughout this whole thing.

Rob: And that's Sarah Boudissa, business Development Manager at Metapic.

SARAH: I essentially look after new business and existing business and help them navigate through the influencer landscape and find strategies that work best for them to help them scale their performance and activity.

Rob: Can you tell us a bit more about Metapic and its platform, its technology, how it works?

SARAH: Yeah, for sure. So Metapic is an influencer network. We work with over 2000 retailers on the platform and have over, 100,000 influencers linking them. We provide them with the tools so they can monetize their content across any of their social networks, and they can work with these brands in multiple ways, including CPC, CPA, events, flat fee campaigns, so on and so forth.

But yeah, not just working on a performance basis, but also creating meaningful engagements and activations.

Rob: Ellie, turning to you and just thinking about a brand like Boots. Got a well established affiliate program, been running it for years, really, successfully. Influencer is [00:05:00] obviously a more novel marketing approach, that we've seen emerge in the channel, over the last kind of five to 10 years or so.

And I was really interested in how you integrate influencer into the affiliate program and what the general approach was there?

ELLIE: So before working with Metapic, it was very kind of our affiliate program was very heavily centered just towards the traditional affiliates. So obviously like the likes of cashback and like discount sites and things like that.

So we really had no sort of relationship with any sort of influencer networks a part from kind of organic only basis with LTK. Obviously, like I said, like seeing firsthand the value that influencer networks can bring to brands like PLT obviously knew that this was a huge space that we could easily tap into.

And then just recognizing as well that competitors were already massively optimizing within this space. I felt like it was just really testing it on like a organic only basis at the start. So we just had completely run on CPA basis, just particularly as I started in October. So this is obviously around peak, so we didn't obviously want to dive in at the end.

So yeah, we let it run completely organic over peak, obviously performed really, well within the first couple of months, and that just helped us secure that [00:06:00] first initial investment. And then we also then just went into a three month trial where we had that smaller investment, which really just proved its value.

Rob: Yeah.

ELLIE: Just straight away. Since then, we've launched with multiple other influencers, sub networks, which really exciting. And led to yeah. Has increased investment over the time, so it's been a really exciting opportunity.

Rob: From an internal perspective, right? When you've got lots of different marketing teams and departments working together, we know about the existing silos that often exist in businesses, particularly the bigger you get, the kind of like the bigger the teams are.

It's hard sometimes to always connect the dots between them. How do you balance the influencer activity that you are running through the affiliate program with maybe some of the preexisting stuff that your own influencer team or PR teams are, working on.

ELLIE: So I definitely think we just really have worked hard over the last two years that I've been there on just making sure that our work's like really aligned and like the communication between both teams is just really clear.

I think there's definitely a really strong understanding from both teams of how we can both bring value. I think obviously what we do and what they do really can compliment each other rather than overlap or duplicate any work that's being done. So we definitely keep things separate so there's a clear [00:07:00] distinction.

So the in house influence team just definitely look over like the sort of paid collaborations and things like that. Whereas our role as an affiliate is just covering all organic only basis content. So that just really helps to make sure that there's like a clear line between what both channels are offering rather than us overpromising on like the influencers of what we can both do.

So yeah, we definitely have regular check-ins, kind of trackers, updates, and like lots of calls with like kind of both teams just to make sure that we're really aligned.

Rob: And are there pre-existing kind of partnerships or campaigns that the influencer team are working on where there might be instances where they look to supplement that with say, an affiliate code or an affiliate like link or something that they would look to promote?

Or is that not really kinda how it works?

ELLIE: Yeah, we're just trying to keep very separate at the moment just to make sure that there is no blurred line.

Rob: Yeah.

ELLIE: I think it's quite easy for influencers to ask for an exclusive or an affiliate link where they can get kind of commission paid through us.

Rob: Yeah.

ELLIE: 'cause obviously it's a huge value for them to incentivize them, but then I think that's where there's a gray area.

Rob: Yeah.

ELLIE: Of just like making sure that we are not paying out then commission for the work that the influencer [00:08:00] team are doing.

Rob: Yeah.

ELLIE: So yeah, they definitely stick to those kind of paid collaborations, whereas we just like to keep it separate.

Rob: So can you describe any standout campaigns that you've run with individual influencers via the partnership so far?

ELLIE: Yeah, so I think our biggest successes have just always been where we've utilized both the CPC boosts alongside like the creator competitions, the gifting, and also like just exposure across Metapic. I think just having that brand presence across all of Metapic has just really helped us and you can really just see the organic uplift we see from content creation off the back of it. I think it just really drives them kind of long-term partnerships with the influencers, but then also just drives that sort of like trust from the audience as well.

'cause they can see that Boots is integrated within their lifestyle, everyday makeup routine or like within the Mother's Day care and things like that. So I think rather than it just being like a one stop shop or like an ad, I think it really just helps prove our value and just show it's like incremental. And then obviously we just see really strong results off the back of that.

Rob: And how about from your side, Sarah? Were there any particular campaigns or instances that you really stood out to you?

SARAH: Every campaign is my favorite campaign, to be honest with you.

Rob: [00:09:00] So diplomatic.

SARAH: So I know. So diplomatic.

no, but genuinely, I think it's like one of those partnerships that just seems so seamless. I think it works so well. 'cause Boots really is like, they have such a wide audience reach. And there's something for everyone. I think the most important thing, and something that Boots does really well is having an always on approach.

Rob: Yeah.

SARAH: They always have some kind of activation going on with the influencers, and it really does help show the influencers that like we value you, like we want to keep rewarding you for your marketing efforts. And the more that they do that, the more that the influencers actually give back. And we've just seen that like time and time again with the trajectory of growth in their month and year on year performance, which has been amazing.

Rob: And is, that kind of always on mentality from a brand perspective?

SARAH: Yeah.

Rob: Is that valuable to influencers because it's keeping your brand kind of front of mind when they're making decisions around who to give exposure to or think about from a product perspective?

SARAH: Exactly. So now we have Boots creators chasing us.

Okay, what's next? Like, when are we gonna do the next gifting activation? When are we going to have the next [00:10:00] boost. Because Boots always has communication going out with their influencers as well it just keeps them top of mind in so many different ways.

Rob: Yeah.

SARAH: They have a very much a 360 multi-channel strategy going on right now.

Rob: Yeah.

SARAH: Which works very well.

Rob: Sarah just mentioned the fact that Boots has got such a wide audience in terms of the type of demographics, that you are often kinda selling your products to and promoting them to. And I wondered, because of that, were there any unusual examples of influencers that you were working with that you maybe weren't assuming would resonate with their audience, or that a certain product would suddenly fly off the shelves because of a kind of influencer promoting it heavily?

Was there anything like that's occurred?

ELLIE: Yeah, so I think definitely just like the niche creators that really have those highly engaged in, kind of audiences. I think those were the ones that kind of surprised me the most. And they typically would perform really well across like the beauty sector, the baby sector, and like the health and wellness and things like that.

So we're seeing not just like the premium beauty driving the biggest sales, it's the ones that driving kind of sales across all different categories, which is really exciting.

Rob: I often think some influencers, particularly when we're talking about like maybe the smaller end [00:11:00] of the spectrum and the micro influencers that have those kinda smaller niche audiences.

SARAH: Yeah. Micro is on the rise for sure.

Rob: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think like the great strength of working with a brand like Boots is a sudden like legitimacy that you have of I have got the seal of approval from a big, like brand, like retailer. And that suddenly gives me legitimacy to my audience.

ELLIE: Yeah.

Rob: And says oh, I'm trusted as a, kind of person of influence.

ELLIE: I think definitely around like our, when we do like the giftings with the box and things like that, we see such a huge uplift of the creative content. So yeah, I think influencers are very happy to promote boots just because it is such a well established brand.

yeah. Yeah. There's definitely an appetite from all the inputs. Suppose is good visual.

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Rob: So can you describe a little bit, both of you, like how you work together from a commercial standpoint? Sarah, maybe if you wanna kick off.

SARAH: Yeah, definitely. So we work quite closely together to define what Boots' main objectives are, and unsurprisingly, it's ROAs so we need to make sure that we are building strategies that really do push ROAs.

But there are I guess micro metrics that we also look into. So for example, just from Metapic's side, we wanna make sure that we're diversifying the influencers that we're [00:13:00] working with, and we don't want all of the ROAs to be coming from, for example, their top 20, 30 influencers alone. Because if one of those influencers, or a couple of those influencers, are indisposed, they're on holiday, they're moving, they have an operation, which has happened a couple of months ago, then it can lead to a dip in performance.

But thankfully, because the Boots program is doing so, so well, and it resonates with quite a wide audience. It hasn't really like affected Boots that much in terms of their performance, but I've seen it happen to other brands I've worked with. They rely so heavily on the Same kind of influencers. So I think making sure that you are increasing the, unique active influencers that you're working with who are organically linked to your program is also super, super important.

We're working on strategies and ways that we can like basically increase that. And then just making sure that we're introducing new creators into the roster as well. Like I said, micro's on the rise, so we are seeing new influencers step into the space who are making a splash, so we wanna make sure that they are also best positioned to help [00:14:00] Boots hit some KPIs and help with brand awareness and reach new audiences, et cetera, and get some new customers on board.

Rob: Yeah. That point about diversification is funny. that's something that's probably equally as true of the running of the general affiliate program, right? Is that you don't want it to become too concentrated around certain

SARAH: Exactly.

Rob: Publish models or individual publishers themselves. And so there is obviously always that analogous Kind of activity going on towards a goal, towards diversification. But, Yeah, like commercially speaking then, like how do you work together with, Metapic right now?

ELLIE: Really just on a kind of a performance based approach.

Rob: Yeah.

ELLIE: So again just making sure that it's cost efficient, that it's commercially viable for the brand. and obviously like you said, just like that return on investment, again, just making sure that it's profitable for us and we are keeping aligned within the whole affiliate sort of channel targets rather than just seeing influencers as like a separate unity.

So yeah, it's just overweighing it as a whole rather than just making it separate.

Rob: And is that like on a CPA or on a CPC, a hybrid, bit of gifting? Or is it a whole mix of everything really?

SARAH: A mix of everything really. And I think that's really important is [00:15:00] not just relying on one type of model.

Rob: Yeah.

SARAH: I think having a mix. So primarily we work on a CPC basis, but then we are also doing gifting and we also have campaigns coming up and events and multiple other activations, which is really good. I think that's super important as well. 'cause we don't wanna rely heavily on discount days, promotions, sales, peak period.

We wanna make sure that the performance is still going strong during off peak times as well. Otherwise, you're just gonna be relying on like November and December for like peaks in performance.

Rob: Which is when the prices are gonna go up as well, right?

SARAH: Exactly.

Rob: 'cause that's when the peak demand is so.

SARAH: Exactly.

So to make sure that, we're seeing like a steady growth throughout the year, supplementing it with like different bits of activity, like exposure opportunities as well. Just keeping top of mind for the influencers is. Super vital. Yeah. Yeah. but what I would say is, even though we work on a CPC basis, you can have a hybrid approach.

And it's not one or the other. But we can go onto that there. Yeah. A little bit.

Rob: So I mean like making that case internally from Boots' [00:16:00] perspective. To shift - 'cause CPA is like a cornerstone of every affiliate program out there. But influencer often sits, in that upper funnel and brand awareness space, we know there's value there and how do we quantify it?

How do we effectively reward it? How did you make the case internally to have that evolution and have that more flexibility I guess around the commercial terms?

ELLIE: We have traditionally been on a CPA only model, so it's definitely just taking it case by case basis. I think we have just recognized obviously, the value that infant sub networks can bring to a channel.

So looking at kind of Metapic as a whole, we knew that competitors were already utilizing on a CPC model within Metapic. So it just meant we either accept that we lose our share of voice within the influencer space, or we actually try and adapt. Definitely starting small was like the best approach.

I think just seeing how it runs organically as a base really proved its value over time. And then putting that investment into the CPC, seeing how it performed and then making adaptable and flexible changes from there was really helpful to have like that Metapic dashboard as well.

We could see that firsthand. And visually, whereas I feel like some of the other sub networks are [00:17:00] a bit less transparent of what we can see. So yeah, visibility definitely helped our case and it's secured us a further investment.

Rob: So you've explained a little bit about how you made the case obviously for making that shift over towards more of a CPC biased commercial model.

And I wondered. In terms of like getting the buy-in from senior stakeholders and how you frame that. What was that experience like?

ELLIE: So I think I had a, like a really positive experience with that. I think we definitely just really needed a strong business case, but luckily I had the support of our director Ollie, who really listened to what we were saying and really understood it and saw the value and incremental value it could have for the affiliate channel.

And he's really open to explore kind of new opportunities on ways to diversify the channel. So yeah, that definitely helped having him on board and really open to test and try new things.

Rob: Yeah. Yeah. Sarah, from your perspective like the CPC model is a default expectation, I guess from Metapic's perspective for brands that they work with, generally speaking? Ish?

SARAH: Generally. So we started off, actually - before I started, it was all on a CPA basis. Yeah. And then you have the normal exposure opportunities, events and gifting, et cetera. But then [00:18:00] they tested out CPC for a bit. Yeah. And it really took off. It really, worked. But we can work on a hybrid. as well. So it's not to say like one is better than the other.

I think CPC really does align with the primary roles of an influencer, which is to drive awareness and traffic to a brand site. Whereas CPA requires a specific action, usually that's gonna be sales, which is a little bit unfair because the influencer will go through all of this marketing effort to create all the content, which takes time.

Put it in front of their audiences and then if they don't get a sale, 'cause it does take time for a consumer to consider that purchase. Then they're missing out on the actual commissions, and that tends to demotivate them a little bit. Because then they're like, if I've never worked with this brand beforehand and I've driven traffic to their site, but it's not converting, then what's in it for me?

Rob: Yeah.

SARAH: So that's why a lot of them turn to flat fee models instead, straight off the bat. Which is a bit unnerving for brands because you don't wanna work with an influencer you [00:19:00] don't have any kind of data on. You don't know if they're gonna work for you. They can have like millions of followers, but it doesn't mean that their audience is going to be engaged with your product.

CPC is a low risk way of working with, new influencers. It's a capped budget, which means that it's cost effective for the brand side. And I think some brands get really scared when it's the first time they're doing it, so it does take time to sell in. But it does work out really well for quite a few brands, especially when it comes to beauty and entertainment, travel, et cetera, those kind of brands. It's a low risk way.

The budgets are capped. We're able to also optimize everything from our end. So at Metapic, we would handle our brands campaigns day to day. So we'd look really into the performance, who is driving for them. If there's someone who's costing us, then we can optimize those rates and change it so that the top performers will get the most competitive rates.

The ones who maybe are driving a little bit of traffic but not converting as much. If that's the main goal that we want to see at the end, we might put down their rates slightly so they can still drive traffic to the site [00:20:00] but, we're protecting the cost of the budget investment as well. What's great about CPC from the creator perspective is that they're able to predict their earnings as well.

So they can see, for example, Metapic we will set a click limit and the rate, and they can see how much they can earn from it. So it's really easy for them to predict the earnings. Whereas with CPA, it's long validation times.

Rob: Yeah.

SARAH: Typically, you might get some frustrated influencers who haven't been paid out in a while for their sales that they've driven like maybe months ago.

So it turns them off a little bit and demotivates them. Whereas CPC helps tackle that if you have a hybrid approach because CPC is capped then if you have, you're working with those key creators and then they've reached their limit of a hundred pounds per creator.

Rob: Yeah.

SARAH: For a thousand clicks, whatever it might be at 10 p. But they can still continue earning on a CPA basis then that CPC almost acts as like a small flat fee for them.

And they're more likely to keep going creating content. 'cause they can already see that their consumers are clicking on the link, they are converting. They can see that it's [00:21:00] proven to be fruitful for them.

Rob: Yeah.

SARAH: So if you pair them together, it tends to be the best case scenario in the sweet spot.

Rob: Yeah, that makes sense.

SARAH: Exactly.

Rob: It's interesting 'cause like the CPA, which has been, established as like the default model commercially from the industry at large is something that feels maybe not the best?

SARAH: Yeah.

Rob: Approach to social. I think part of the reason for that is that if I have a blog, I have an editorial website, that piece of content that I publish has got like an evergreen quality a lot of the time, which means that there's traffic that's gonna be driven to that page.

SARAH: Yeah.

Rob: For, maybe 12 months, maybe 18 months, sometimes a couple of years or so. And if that CPA link is still there, that's gonna be something that continues to generate revenue for me, which is great. I don't think that applies in the social world. There is such, the, nature of the feed, the nature of that consonant infinite scroll that you've got across all of the platforms means that this idea of a passive income is that much harder, I think for influencers to have in quite the Same way. Yes, you can have a link in bios, et cetera and things like that, but it's quite a [00:22:00] difficult, dynamic in that sense, isn't it?

SARAH: Definitely. I think that's what leads a lot of creators to also educate their consumers. The algorithm isn't very influencer friendly, but because they've educated their consumers on how to shop their looks through these additional tools. It's a great way for them to tackle that and they do make a passive income from it.

And I think the industry will shift as well, like having a multi-touch attribution model down the line in affiliates and having that incorporated more and more for a lot of the brands that are working with influencers or even a view from attribution model to take into account TikTok and video forms.

Rob: Yeah.

SARAH: I think will help scale the influencer space even more.

Rob: Can I just, ask you a follow up question actually, because I think it's quite interesting what you're saying about influencers educating their shoppers to a degree. Do you have to educate as Metapic the influencers to be able to pass that information on?

SARAH: Yes. Yeah, so we have an influencer team that basically looks after all of the influencer and relationships that we have.

They do a fantastic job of basically reaching out to all of the influencers with webinars, lunch and learns, [00:23:00] direct meetups with these creators, even phone calls. We basically go through their data and their performance and just keep an eye on if they're fluctuating, are they doing really well?

What are they doing really well on? If they're struggling, like why? What products are they linking to, et cetera, where are the gaps, basically? And we help educate them on what kind of strategy they should put into place. And a lot of the time, the best kind of creators are the ones who have also like a multi, strategy.

Multi strategy, is that even a word?

Rob: Multi strategy strategy?

SARAH: Multi strategy strategy? They have multiple strategies.

Rob: Yeah.

SARAH: So that they can put in place to ensure that their consumers don't miss out on what they're doing. So they have broadcast channels, and that's something that we educate them on and how they can utilize affiliate links in their broadcast channels, in their highlights.

There's so many different ways in which they can educate their own consumers and we have to educate them of course, so that they know how they can make it all work.

Rob: They are the kind of guardians of their own brands, right?

SARAH: Exactly.

Rob: And but they're not professional marketers necessarily.

Like some of them are great at it and they would be fantastic marketers, but a lot of them are just got a passion for a niche and like a community [00:24:00] that they've built quite organically.

SARAH: Exactly.

ELLIE: And it's growing so fast as well.

Rob: Exactly. Yeah.

ELLIE: Like it's such a new space, I feel like it does take sometimes the interface to teach their kind of influencers as well, what to do.

SARAH: Exactly. Especially when all the social media channels literally change every second. Like their algorithms are always changing. ASA guidelines are always changing as well. Yeah. So we're really there to help safeguard them and also make sure that our brands are protected as well.

Yeah. We're here to help them do better for you.

Rob: Yeah.

SARAH: So..

ELLIE: Thanks.

Rob: In terms of them doing better for you, could you describe a little bit more about how you are kinda setting out benchmarks for success?

ELLIE: Obviously sales and revenue are obviously key indicators of success. However, we take a really holistic approach to measurement.

So we're not just looking at short term kind of goals or short term gains, but we're also looking at long term sustainability and also brand visibility as well. We're looking also at traffic and clicks, making sure that the influencers are driving quality traffic, and also seeing how well the products are being engaged by the consumers.

Also looking at conversion rates, obviously how well that traffic is converting, let us gauge how well the [00:25:00] influencers are like promoting Boots. Obviously, like I said, ROAS is a huge part of how we're measuring success as well. So making sure that we're seeing a really strong return of our investment and making sure it's commercially viable for us.

And then also just competitive benchmarking. So we're always reviewing our performance against kind of industry trends and making sure that we're remaining competitive within such a already competitive landscape.

Rob: That makes sense. And I guess an extension of that is like how you guys are helping internal stakeholders, like Ellie to speak to colleagues and peers at Boots about what it is that you can deliver in terms of those, performance data insights of the success of the campaign.

SARAH: Yeah. So any brand that comes on board onto the platform will have access to a brand dashboard. And on that brand dashboard, you'll have access to the key metrics such as sales, orders, clicks, unique influencers linking to you, et cetera.

I think where Metapic really goes one step ahead is to make sure that we don't wanna be a black box. We really pride ourselves on transparency. So we give them like a look into who those creators are that actually driving success for them. Breakdown of their data as well, so they can see how they're contributing to the [00:26:00] performance too.

That's something that's readily available to any of our brands, but when we have investing partners, I think it's really important to look into, okay, this is the strategy, this is how we've been working, deep diving into the data. And I love data. Like for me it's like my playground. So I love delving into what competitors are doing, where the gaps are, why like maybe we've seen a dip, why we've seen a growth, and creating strategies to help plug those gaps as well.

So we would send over a monthly reporting after each month so they can see exactly like how they've performed and which influencers have contributed to that success during that time. Who their top performers are. Why they're performing well, any movers and shakers as well. So if there's an influencer that performed particularly well during like last month's period, or like last year, then if they're not in their top five anymore, why is that?

Yeah. And how can we reengage them? So it's part of a wider conversation as well with the rest of my teams. And we just really make sure that we utilize that data to really push the growth of our clients. And that's something we do really well with Boots, I feel.

ELLIE: Definitely.

Rob: And Sarah, just before we wrap things up, I wanted to ask, [00:27:00] where do you think things are heading within the influencer space?

SARAH: I think just thinking back to a couple of years ago, like influencer really wasn't, like it was a thing that people were like, oh, like we should try that. But we never really anticipated how big it would be for a lot of brands now. I think within the affiliate partnerships, it's rapidly evolving. We're gonna see a blend of performance driven models with authentic content creation, and I think that's gonna lead to a couple of things, like better tracking models as well.

So I mentioned just moving away from the traditional last click wins and moving more towards multi, multi, what's it called again?

Rob: Multitouch.

SARAH: Multitouch. That's the one. Thank you. Multitouch Attribution and also view through -

Rob: Okay.

SARAH: Attribution models. Yeah, so to account for like video content as well.

And then also just to reward influencers for like driving early awareness. Because even if, for example, I've gone onto a blog from two weeks ago and I've clicked on a Dyson hairdryer. I'm not gonna buy a hairdryer like right there and then the cost living crisis is like quite expensive.

So I'm gonna consider it maybe for a few more days. Down the line, [00:28:00] if I was to see a paid partnership ad, or for example, there may be a discount code that's just come out with Dyson, or they have a sale and I click through that link. I don't think the influencers fairly rewarded for that.

Instead, it's the last click that wins, and I don't think that's reflective of the efforts that they go through. So I think changing the - making the tracking better and also changing the attribution models that brands use to reward influencers. Would definitely be something that comes into effect a lot more down the line.

Rob: Yeah. I guess like Boots are a good example of that, right?

SARAH: Yeah.

Rob: As many programs, it would've been around like a primarily like lower funnel to mid funnel. like affiliate partners promoting you in and last click works in that space. Yeah. But there's a real reeducation and repositioning of what we think we can actually do. And I think that speaks volumes about how the industry itself has evolved. And obviously that means that things need to change in terms of attribution, in terms of rewards, and in terms of how you quantify the value that's being generated.

SARAH: Yeah, definitely.

Rob: Ellie, what's one piece of advice? That you'd have for any business looking to get the most from their affiliate [00:29:00] partnerships in general.

ELLIE: So I definitely think just starting small and like testing and then optimizing from there.

Rob: Yeah.

ELLIE: Rather than just diving into the deep end. I definitely think like a kind of test and learn approach is essential to do well.

And yeah, just being really adaptable and flexible with your strategy to make sure it's commercially viable for you as well.

Rob: Yeah. What's your single biggest lesson from the partnership?

SARAH: I agree on all those points. Yeah. great points. And also, yeah, I think just stressing on like long-term planning as well.

Like it doesn't have to be huge budgets. But like working on a three month plan, a six month plan, like really can help elevate your program like so much more than just like an ad hoc campaign where you spend 50 K in one campaign and then like it's done and gone.

Rob: Yeah.

SARAH: Whereas if you have a long-term partnership, it really does help build that trust with the influencers and that loyalty and you'll see bigger better results from that long term. I'd also say have an open mind. Obviously everyone wants sales, but if you've never done anything with influencers before and you're just starting a relationship with a roster of creators, then don't expect sales from the get go. understand that you need to build brand [00:30:00] awareness.

You're being presented in front of a new audience who are going to be obviously a little bit of that. Yeah, a little bit skeptical and they don't wanna be just sold anything and everything. The climate that we're in is cost of living, so everyone's a little bit more tighter on their purse strings. A lot more conscious about what they're buying, with sustainability as well. Like they have their walls up when it comes to buying things from influencers. So the more that they see that influencer pushing that brand. And that's over a long-term partnership with these creators, the better it's gonna be for your brand down the line in terms of growth.

Rob: Which is the Same principle as advertising and marketing generally, right?

SARAH: Yeah, exactly.

Rob: You do it through repetition. Not just through one, one-off kind of campaigns.

SARAH: I think as it's an influencer and a real person, you put a bit more accountability on them, and that's why you expect a lot more from them, but it works the Same way.

Rob: Yeah.

SAM: Really interesting conversation there between you, Ellie, and Sarah, and thanks to both of them for coming on to share more about their partnership.

Rob: And next up, who is gonna be joining you on the podcast, Sam?

SAM: I had the pleasure of speaking to OPM Agency, [00:31:00] RevWise and one of their clients, The Bottle Club, while we were in Portugal for Think Tank. And so that's who we'll be hearing from in a few weeks.

And for everyone else listening, keep your eyes and ears peeled for some other Think Tank highlights over the coming weeks and months.

Rob: Yeah, we're gonna be dropping some new Think Tank highlights episodes into the podcast feed over the next few weeks, and there'll be episodes that feature our interviews with the likes of Scott Galloway, Lily Ray, Karen Nelson-Field, Rory Sutherland, not to mention a whole host of other great conversations that we captured whilst we were out there.

SAM: Even if you couldn't make it, you can still enjoy a taste of all the great content that was featured. In the meantime, if you're enjoying the podcast, please, give us a rating and a review on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you're tuning in from. You can check out all of our episodes there or by heading to a one.com/podcast.

Rob: For now though, that's all we've got time for today. So thanks so much for listening to Awin-Win Marketing Podcast, where we show you how affiliate partnerships always offer a win-win. [00:32:00] Goodbye.