Kleva Brands + Silverbean

00:00:06:11 - 00:00:31:24
Unknown
Hi Soph. Hi Rob, how are you? Not too bad, thank you. Good. Surviving, not thriving. How are you? Good to hear. I'm all right. Thank you. Given that the nature of our interview on today's episode is about kitchen or home appliances. We've got brand from that particular space on. I've got a question for you. What is the one kitchen or home appliance that you could not live without?

00:00:32:01 - 00:00:57:05
Unknown
Oh, I would absolutely say my air fryer. For sure. Busy, busy schedules. Yeah. I can't live without. It's a revolutionary appliance now. Household for sure. And what's the last thing that you air fried? I actually it was. You know what? It was lamb. And it was like, not yesterday, the day before. And it was wonderful.

00:00:57:07 - 00:01:11:22
Unknown
So. Yeah, cleaning it not so wonderful. Always. But the outcome is always, always figured you need a kitchen appliance for your kitchen appliance, I think, don't you? Something that cleans the fryer. Exactly. You do, you do. That's how they get you.

00:01:11:24 - 00:01:29:10
Unknown
Hello, and welcome back to another episode of a win win marketing podcast, and a warm welcome to the podcast for Sophie. Hi. So how are you doing? Hey, Rob. I'm good. Thanks. How you doing? I'm great. Thank you. Thanks so much for staying up late tonight. I know you're all the way Down Under in Australia, and it's. What time right now?

00:01:29:12 - 00:01:52:16
Unknown
Well, the clocks went back, so luckily I'm here on time, but it's almost 28 in the evening. Okay, well, I appreciate you. You doing this for us? Could you introduce yourself to our listeners who haven't actually met you before? What do you do? And over a A1 and done in Australia in Commision Factory. Yeah, sure. So I'm the revenue operations director at Commision Factory.

00:01:52:18 - 00:02:20:06
Unknown
I work really closely with our revenue generating team. So success sales, marketing, pop dev. And make sure that the journey through the business is really seamless in the operational process is geared towards maximizing revenue. So on today's episode, we took a rare foray Down Under, and we found out about a local partnership between a popular local brand in Australia and their affiliate agency.

00:02:20:06 - 00:02:59:08
Unknown
So. So who did you actually have in the studio with you? Yeah, sure. So I had the pleasure of sitting down with Kleva Brands and there have been a pack, and we had a great conversation around how Kleva and Silverbean had managed to translate what had historically really been a offline, and sort of advertorial based marketing strategy into digital and specifically affiliates, and also how they moved their product and brand into new audiences through affiliate, whilst maintaining sort of that audience that was a bit more attuned to that sort of traditional marketing strategy.

00:02:59:09 - 00:03:20:21
Unknown
Yeah. Perfect. And we should point out that this episode was actually recorded a little while ago, wasn't it? It was ages ago. Yeah. Yes, it was a while ago. Had to, blow the dust off and have a rewatch of what we talked about, but. Yes. And in a year that was certainly, a decade or more ago.

00:03:20:22 - 00:03:44:04
Unknown
But the substance of the conversation is, I think, still really relevant and really valuable. And I think there's definitely a load of lessons that we can glean from it. Yeah. So started by our director in 2011 with just one product, which was a knife sharpener called The Kleva Sharp. So little red unit, you stick it down with a sort of and plate onto your fridge, onto the bench, wherever.

00:03:44:04 - 00:04:11:03
Unknown
Just a flat, smooth surface. That's Callum. Hit it. Business manager at Kleva Brands. Sold over a million of those now sort of worldwide. And then from there, we've sort of grown exponentially. We've now got over about 200 SKUs. And we started off on smaller household products like, yeah, can opener you have peelers, your vegetable slices, etc. and as the years have gone, we've sort of moved up to higher ticket items.

00:04:11:03 - 00:04:32:11
Unknown
So I have I had gone from about 50, $60 now to about $2,300 off the back of that. We brought on two new brands that, we started through the Kleva range. So we had the mattress topper, which was the super sleeper Pro. Yeah, sold really well. So we broke that into its own category because we sort of felt if we're selling sleep, we needed to be the experts on it.

00:04:32:12 - 00:04:53:16
Unknown
So if it was part of a wider range, people that wanted to know they were going to get a good night's sleep because it's a big thing. That we were the experts in that. So since then we've launched four of the toppers, sheets in all sorts of fabrics and colors, about 50 pillows again that we've been through, most of them in our house.

00:04:53:17 - 00:05:18:06
Unknown
Yeah. And then. Yeah. And then two years ago, we launched our vacuum cleaner, which was under the brand crap off a vacuum cleaners and spot cleaners, robovac and, a whole raft, new products that were coming out as well. Yeah. Generally, I imagine people buy the products without realizing they have so many in the cupboard because they solve a problem for people.

00:05:18:08 - 00:05:32:20
Unknown
Huge fan myself, and it's going to make my life easier. It's definitely sort of a big tick from me. And a few purchases I think have changed my life generally, but my air fryer is definitely one of them for sure. Oh, yeah. Have an air fryer. We're an air fryer family. Have you got our air fryer? Yeah, it's from Kleva.

00:05:32:22 - 00:05:50:12
Unknown
Rotating one. No, it's not rotating. Oh, just a still. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. It will be the old one. Well, we've got a new one, which I get for you. It rotates. Oh my gosh. And it tilts so, you know, you have to shake your basket. Yeah. So you put your food in, you tilt it like that and then the ball rotates.

00:05:50:12 - 00:06:08:10
Unknown
So it spins it around as it's going. It is actually incredible. Again my wife wouldn't let me bring one home for song. Where are we going to put it. So we had to move the cattle and baby. But worth it. Feel like. Well, they look nice, I think. Yeah, it looks really good. And it's got a we call it a cook and look lid.

00:06:08:12 - 00:06:27:21
Unknown
Yeah. Okay. So you can see how your foods cooking should have to keep opening and shaking it. And it's so handy. We use it like every night now. Yeah. Yeah. Great. It's incredible. Just get rid of the oven. There's the space. Do you know what I mean? Annabel, how would you describe sort of role in helping brands like Kleva Scale through the affiliate channel?

00:06:27:24 - 00:06:50:05
Unknown
Yeah. So Kleva is a really exciting brand to be working with. And that's Annabel Gray, Silverbean’s VP in APAC. Different to other advertisers we my partner with because they don't have the same level. I'm sure you're going to talk to us later in terms of brand awareness. So they don't market in terms of brand. They market in terms of products and problems and solutions.

00:06:50:07 - 00:07:19:18
Unknown
So that's really nice from a marketing perspective, because there's quite a nice narrative that we can lay into that working with working with Kleva. And we help like align our online activities with different partners aligned with their marketing calendar. And to make sure we're maximizing the message which is going out in terms of products. So we're increasing that exposure and providing another touchpoint for customers who may not be brand aware, but may be product aware, and to help with that conversion journey.

00:07:19:19 - 00:07:37:10
Unknown
And so we map that all the way across from awareness, interest and conversion, all the way to the end of the funnel. Yeah. As I say, I think it's a really interesting brand because of the breadth of products that you do sell, all of the products, there's a need for it. It's not, it's almost, it's not a discretion or spend.

00:07:37:10 - 00:07:57:14
Unknown
It's like everybody needs a sharp knife. Everybody needs like a really great hoover. And it makes a difference doesn't it. So and so we're such a strong foundation in offline and direct response marketing, understandably, for the sorts of products that, you guys sell, sort of demos being super important. Where did Affiliate First fit into your marketing mix?

00:07:57:16 - 00:08:28:11
Unknown
So we actually started during Covid because we couldn't record any new content in the studio. We had to find new avenues to sell our existing products. And when we first, got in touch with Commission Factory, we sort of thought it was more like influencer type, and we were very uneducated about it. And then we sort of got the perception that it was more because we were doing it ourselves, that it was more like coupon based.

00:08:28:13 - 00:08:49:05
Unknown
And it's only since we've been working with these guys that I've sort of understood how big and how encompassing affiliate actually is from your influencers all the way through to like, your link bees and all that sort of stuff that's come to the middle. So yeah, it was basically came through a need to find new marketing channels through Covid.

00:08:49:06 - 00:09:12:18
Unknown
It's almost like whilst Covid was, I think, a mixed bag for for people, which kind of gave you a little nudge into maybe that you wouldn't have explored otherwise. No, I don't think we would, to be honest. And yeah, obviously it wasn't a good time, but it exposed us to in New Orleans of people that because we are traditionally or were back in 2020 so of daytime TV advertising.

00:09:12:18 - 00:09:33:06
Unknown
So anyone that was working 9 to 5 wasn't really aware of what we were doing. So trying to get ourselves across different networks, through the affiliate channel was sort of crucial at that time for us. How hard was it to get buy in internally for basically taking spend from elsewhere or because of Covid? Was that not such an issue?

00:09:33:06 - 00:09:52:13
Unknown
Because actually it was kind of stuck there. It was kind of necessary at that time. Since we've come out of that, the constant question from the director is, are we sort of because we were only using affiliate for a very bottom of funnel, sort of more you coupon type websites. And it was. Oh, we just paying commission on people that would have bought anyway.

00:09:52:14 - 00:10:24:18
Unknown
Yeah, sure. Until we started working with these guys. Like I said before, it was very much seen as that by by the director. Sure. But the main one that he sees at the minute, he's very hot on Lyngby. Because we can use that content across our other content. So we've had some of the articles in our TV ads, our morning show, our social posts, and it's really good because you can it's sort of very obvious to see what it's doing.

00:10:24:20 - 00:10:57:14
Unknown
Whereas with the coupon codes it's always. Would it, would it not. Type of thing. Yeah. So sort of shifting a little bit from conversion lead partner makes to a slightly more sort of funnel and, and just going back a little bit to the internal by in as an agency. How do you support clients that maybe are stepping into affiliate for, for the first time and maybe have to navigate like, yeah, hurdles when it comes to buying and sort of, I guess selling upwards, so to speak.

00:10:57:16 - 00:11:19:17
Unknown
That's very much our position in peace and in making sure that anything that we deliver through the channel can stand up at board level. So it's understanding what good looks like for a brand and getting really deep into that definition. So not just looking at top line revenue, but understanding other KPIs that can also add a bit more depth or a bit more nuanced to that definition.

00:11:19:17 - 00:11:46:02
Unknown
So whether that be average order value, repeat frequency, conversion rate, etc.. And so taking that lens is how we, how we would position it internally to make sure there is full confidence within the results. So there's a big education piece I say working alongside our clients first of all to define what what is good. And because it varies for all different brands.

00:11:46:04 - 00:12:07:16
Unknown
And then making sure that their campaign is structured according. So removing and reviewing anyone who doesn't line up with those expectations and then building out, a partnership program which is diverse and does meet those range of KPIs, which we relied against the program. I think that's like part of the beauty of affiliates and obviously enormously biased.

00:12:07:16 - 00:12:23:03
Unknown
But I feel like there always there are partners that can help with any of the those KPIs, really. Whether it's on or whether it's, you know, the, the pointy end or anything in between. Like, I feel like the channel is so diverse. And so I guess if we could maybe just pick up on that a little bit more.

00:12:23:07 - 00:12:45:13
Unknown
What sort of partners? Are you working with at the moment to achieve those, I guess, collective KPIs that. Yep. It's been an interesting once we've we've built out a full funnel strategy. And it's got a, it's a sort of a two pronged approach, as we spoke about earlier in terms of brand awareness. We've had to layer in a product led approach.

00:12:45:15 - 00:13:05:10
Unknown
So not looking at store discounts but looking at product where when is product education like needs education. And and then also like a generic sort of tactical messaging alongside that like the top of the funnel. We've done quite a bit on the content side. Yeah. So I was mentioning link B, we've done quite a bit with link B.

00:13:05:11 - 00:13:26:20
Unknown
It's been really powerful, particularly for those products pieces with doing gifting. So we had a fantastic editorial written up in I think it was Women's Weekly, I want to say that was on the air fryer. That was was it on the air fryer then? So yeah, and that was a gifting piece. And that's worked out really nicely because we can do link me and then it also converts into, yeah.

00:13:27:01 - 00:13:52:06
Unknown
CPA links afterwards. So it's really good for securing that upper funnel visibility. And then alongside that we also had, sales messaging that might appear in like News.com, kind of, you know, discounts are Kleva to sort of reinforce the Friday period that was. Yeah. Yeah. Just to reinforce brand awareness. So product and brand and to sort of provide that bridge across them and then other, other partners.

00:13:52:06 - 00:14:16:07
Unknown
We've done quite a bit with close user groups. Yeah. So specific audiences that we wanted to target. So, oh, the senior discount. Older demographic. Yeah. Close user group. We've done quite a bit in, but we've also expanded outside of their demographic to other close user groups of that same product and brand led strategy. And then another one, which is quite interesting.

00:14:16:07 - 00:14:36:08
Unknown
We've been, starting to test out, Bing CSS. Oh, nice. Yeah. Because, as you know, and I'm not sure about anyone listening, but we're not able to do Google CSS partners over in Australia. Yeah. But we've been testing Bing CSS, and while it's not got the same scale as Google, we're getting some really strong results.

00:14:36:08 - 00:14:55:23
Unknown
And that also skews towards the older demographics. So from all of those we have really good coverage across the funnel. And then all the way to our conversion, more traditional sort of partners. Yeah. I think I feel like Bing's largely forgotten about, but it's definitely not to be discounted. Is it particularly likes? It does allow for CSS and like very product led, like comparative messaging.

00:14:55:23 - 00:15:19:00
Unknown
If you have like a really good like price point as well. Yeah, absolutely. Just pick up on a few pieces. You've talked about, obviously, the demographic and how you've tried to adjust the partner mix to, I guess, support the core audience for Kleva brands. How important was it for you when you were considering affiliate, maintaining the integrity of that core audience?

00:15:19:02 - 00:15:43:21
Unknown
I guess. It's tricky. It's really. Yeah. Obviously you want to go where you're not currently getting sales. Yeah. But at the behest of alienating that core audience that has made us what we are is just not an option. Yeah. But in terms of, I guess keeping that call a, I guess, age group demographic happy. It's a lot about the trust signals for that demographic.

00:15:44:00 - 00:16:04:04
Unknown
As Annabel said before, our products are always our hero rather than our brand because of the market we're in. People want to know about the products, what it can do for them, how it can save them time. Usage. You love your gadgets. How we can help you. People don't want to know necessarily, too much about us, only that they have to trust us.

00:16:04:05 - 00:16:25:12
Unknown
Yeah. Because we're basically selling trust and have point in 20 years to build that trust. And when we actually talk, James is face James, our director. He's the talent the the people see on screen. But we wanted to reduce our reliance on him about two years ago. And when we took him off, we saw a decline in sales.

00:16:25:14 - 00:16:53:21
Unknown
Because people were obviously resonating with him. And I think that comes with that older demographic. We are still trying to find ways to engage those younger customers clients. But right now that's more of a social thing for us rather than an affiliate thing. So yeah, once I think you can be a bit freer on social media, and do a bit quicker testing, pull things down if it doesn't work.

00:16:53:23 - 00:17:14:12
Unknown
And then sort of transition that across the rest of the business. Yeah. You mentioned earlier that you were sharing some of your TV creative or some of the creative that you were using an offline sort of inter affiliate. Do you think that's helped a little bit with, I guess, consistent messaging because again, like, oh yes. Yes. So like I say, we sell trust and have built up that trust.

00:17:14:13 - 00:17:45:09
Unknown
We've got 65,005 star reviews on our website. We've got 1005 star reviews on Trustpilot. And this year, six of our products on Kleva Range one product Review awards for best in their category and two on Super Sleeper. Wow. So yeah, and that's a good thing as well. Like I was telling Alibaba when we spoke before, products are not historically have been seen as poor quality that you buy off TV and it will break.

00:17:45:09 - 00:18:29:19
Unknown
And everyone jokes about steak and I get free steak knives and that sort of stuff. So it's actually something we're really conscious about is getting good quality products. And the fact that we've now started to get recognized with those product review awards just shows that we are trying to break out of that mold.

00:18:29:21 - 00:19:06:06
Unknown
For Kleva, because affiliate potentially has come in as a very much a supporting channel. What you were already doing was not broken. It's still phenomenally successful. The affiliate channel obviously can come in and support the main strategy where that is the case. What's the discussion when you're creating a new partnership, like with a brand like Kleva, where you're not sort of saying that affiliate is going to be the main character, so to speak, and it needs to be like, it's almost like it's like the supporting actor for for the other channels.

00:19:06:08 - 00:19:31:03
Unknown
What's the conversation like? Yeah. I mean, I think it's fair to say we're used to affiliate not being. Yes. Yeah. It supports the other channels and that's that's the role of affiliate. However, the conversations are very much it's not a tactical bottom funnel, like lever that just gets flicked on and off just for sale moments.

00:19:31:04 - 00:19:57:22
Unknown
And it's an always on present channel that can support and align with your and be integrated with your strategy across all other channels. And that's how we approach it. For other brands, it's if affiliate works and operates in isolation in a silo and then it's not it's not doing its job, and there's a lot more untapped opportunity within the channel to really integrate it into the business to help achieve or help work towards those wider business objectives.

00:19:57:23 - 00:20:31:13
Unknown
Yeah, and to help again with those other KPIs. And that's that's to me, the difference from a basic program to one that's a really important business level. Yeah. Not the star player. Yes. Very important at nonetheless. Yeah I think it's it can slot in and not disrupt what already works in any way. Absolutely. And I think that, like I, I have Chatsworth brands all the time in terms of like channel expectations and some of them are like, oh, we want to get like 40% contribution, but we also don't want to work with these partners, these partners.

00:20:31:14 - 00:20:56:07
Unknown
And it's, it's, it's that education piece in terms of what does good look like you what's a realistic expectation. And then creating numbers aligned with that rather than selling a dream which is not realistic or not going to add value to the brand. So it's all about value. Yeah. I was actually going to say off the back of that is one of the good things with the Silverbean guys, is the realistic and achievable goals that are set between us at the start.

00:20:56:12 - 00:21:11:09
Unknown
We chatted for a couple of weeks while we're setting up about that. We were doing this. They reviewed our program. So you're currently working with we think you've got opportunities here, here, here. And this is the goals that we're going to set and this is how we're going to do it. And it's not always just adding to the top line.

00:21:11:09 - 00:21:32:11
Unknown
It's also these affiliates are probably getting paid a bit too much commission for what they're doing. We need to change the structure, change it for new and returning customers, add more value for new customers. And just really top to bottom, not just keep piling stuff in. It's how can we make the whole program better and smarter together?

00:21:32:15 - 00:21:52:01
Unknown
Yeah, I think just goes back to like, there's a partner that can touch every lever and like affect every metric. And there's always sort of a, a performance related aspect that you can tap into, like with affiliate that helps sort of any blended metrics. So to your point, like commission rates and that sort of thing. Yeah.

00:21:52:02 - 00:22:12:19
Unknown
Everybody's working to a blended CPA. So it might be that we need to adjust. As time goes on. Annabelle, you said something about, you touched on sale moments and not the channel. Not just being about that. How does Kleva brand react to sale moments? Because you are product led as a as a as a message.

00:22:12:21 - 00:22:38:13
Unknown
So what's your sort of strategy in the sale moments in Australia. And has that, has that been a little bit of an inroad into testing a few new audiences? Because obviously it might be that, yeah, like a slightly different audience is fully into, you know, a Black Friday sale. So sale moments like they are obviously important for all advertisers and it's making sure that you've got, the right placement secured.

00:22:38:15 - 00:22:59:10
Unknown
So we start by discussing strategy early, and we may not have all of the detail on what that specific messaging may be, but we know sort of top line who we want to be seen when we want to book those in. So we make sure we secure placements early across the funnel, as I was sharing earlier. And it's tying up all the way.

00:22:59:11 - 00:23:22:24
Unknown
Those we tend to see more of those conversion partners is more important towards the, like the key sales period. But beforehand we may have some upper funnel activity in terms of the education, awareness, whatever is filling up their shopping cart and getting ready and waiting for sales to start. And then we'll work with, the likes of your cashback partners, to, to really hit home that conversion messaging.

00:23:23:01 - 00:23:45:11
Unknown
So it's again, it's a full funnel approach, but making sure that we have a high awareness, at the consideration or conversion point. And that's worked really nicely. And specifically for Kleva like the likes of Shot Back have been fantastic to get it in front of new audiences who may not have previously converted. So it's been very, very powerful tool, a powerful partner.

00:23:45:13 - 00:24:05:19
Unknown
Yeah. We only started working with these guys. It was off the back of the Commission Factory Connect event. August. So we probably didn't have as longer planning time for Black Friday, Cyber Monday as we went straight into it. I know that well, I was going to say, even with that short time, that November was still our best month ever on the platform.

00:24:05:20 - 00:24:27:11
Unknown
Yeah. So I guess that just speaks to the the power of what these guys can do. With us as well. I'm hoping this year with a longer planning time, we can do even better. So. Yeah. And for, super sleeper. We have an agency competition. For cyber results to see who gets, like, the leaderboard and who gets pole position.

00:24:27:13 - 00:24:50:18
Unknown
And because, Super sleeper exceeded our forecasts so significantly, and we topped the leaderboard globally and that of all of our clients, and I think we had I think we had the majority of like the top ten places. But for our APAC team to be taking home all the awards and recognition and pole position was very proud moment for the teams, were very happy with the results and to get that so quickly as well.

00:24:50:21 - 00:25:12:24
Unknown
Yeah. Wow. Congratulations. Can't call us. Wasn't that really? Yeah. It's always nice to be. The global team is always nice. Yeah. Previously, you said that maybe people were looking at the channel as more of a conversion channel. You obviously have sort of changed the messaging slightly. And we're focusing more on a portfolio key sell moments. That conversion piece is still important.

00:25:12:24 - 00:25:32:04
Unknown
And that's sort of how you tapping have tapped into a few few new audiences. And obviously shop backs are a big, big partner. Is there anything specific around cashback that you guys do on a product level that, helps to feed into that product level message? But also obviously, yeah, it's more conversion LED hit the nail on the head there.

00:25:32:05 - 00:25:53:10
Unknown
So sorry. So we do. So product. So in addition to the commission tiers that we've got set up, we've looked at doing product skew commissions as well aligned with the product messaging. So the product led approach all the way through to the point of conversion. You could do so much with that. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's been really powerful.

00:25:53:10 - 00:26:17:08
Unknown
So I think it was air fryers. We said it before we tried it back on air fryers. So everything comes back to the air right. It's it's incredible. It's so good. It's so good people. Absolutely loving it. As well as a disclaimer, Kleva sells much more than fire. Yes we do. Yes we do. It's been very successful. So we're looking to expand the the product strategy as well and layer in more of those specific SKUs.

00:26:17:08 - 00:26:37:18
Unknown
So it was a test in there to see how it performed. And we're going to be rolling out more of that moving forward. How else are you translating the product led like assets and strategy into the partner mix? I know you touched on content a little bit, but like, what sorts of what sorts of assets do you give people?

00:26:37:19 - 00:26:58:04
Unknown
Like how do you sort of translate a product like message into the program beyond the sort of the cashback piece? Because we're such a video lead? Yeah, of course, sort of content based, trying to get everything, not everything you need to know, but as much as you can into an image or a still or an offer message. That's maybe a hundred characters or whatever.

00:26:58:06 - 00:27:18:21
Unknown
We do find challenging because our products are so visual, and we want to show you why the better than all the other products out there. So that is something that we, I think we can do better. And with the guidance of these guys, we are getting better, as we've seen by the results, a lot of the platforms that we're on, people have never seen us on there before.

00:27:18:23 - 00:27:36:09
Unknown
And if it's a choice between one of our vacuum cleaners or in Dyson vacuum cleaner, then everyone knows Dyson, so you'd more than likely go and buy that one. But if you can see in the thumbnail that, oh, this has won a product review award, it does have X amount of reviews, then they're more likely to come and have a look.

00:27:36:11 - 00:27:52:06
Unknown
Also, you get for your warranties with our products you get extra batteries. You get everything that goes around a very good product anyway. Yeah, yeah. If you're going to spend the money. So. Right. And so you're going to spend the money like those sorts of things matter don't they as well. Yeah. So yeah. Like vacuum cleaners. Yeah.

00:27:52:08 - 00:28:15:06
Unknown
Four year warranty. Actress toppers, you get 128 home guarantee and a five year warranty. Wow. Okay, so, yeah, you're you're very safe shopping with us. Basically on our side, like a our role with the client is to make sure that we're working with the right partners. But then with our partners, our role is to educate them on the brand and what works and what converts.

00:28:15:12 - 00:28:45:08
Unknown
So directing them to top performing products, helping with all of those other conversion messaging in terms of returns, period warranties, etc. to help our partners get better conversion rates. So that's the other side of our partnership and where we help maximize the performance as well. It's really interesting as well because those the details on the product are really important as well, like the value add pieces that you've just talked about and like they're the differentiators.

00:28:45:08 - 00:29:05:02
Unknown
If you've got comparison sites that are pulling in information, if there's I assume there's like a good product feed that you guys sort of work with. Yeah, I think we've got three product feeds that may be down to two now, but yeah, we use a now barely manage one. Yeah. We use the aggregate called data feed watch. Brilliant.

00:29:05:03 - 00:29:32:16
Unknown
Okay. You can specify it for each different platform that you're on. So for example we are on our thumbnails on our website. We have text or everything that Google doesn't like. Yeah. So you can pull a different image through data feed watch that feeds into Google to optimize for whatever whatever whatever the platform. Oh, am I saying? Yeah, I think there's a lot of people like it would be great if more brands thought like that and and like a really good data feed for an affiliate program where you do have a really large product catalog.

00:29:32:17 - 00:30:08:17
Unknown
I think it's so crucial, isn't it? And like I say, having that the value add piece is included, like it's such a part, isn't it, on any, you know, whether it's CSS or whether it's any comparison site or what have you. How important has, your content strategy within affiliates been in educating, the affiliate audience about quality, like the quality of the products on in the Kleva range and honing in on that awareness piece, which we know is really important for for a brand and the products from Kleva.

00:30:08:19 - 00:30:35:07
Unknown
It's a key part of the strategy. Because, because we are we're not looking at, at brand, we're looking at product. We have to have that product education and it's education about each of the products. Because when you've got such a diverse range, and diverse like awards associated with all of them. Yeah. Sure not. The audience doesn't know what consumers don't know which products are the best products, why they're the best products, what the price point is, how they stack up.

00:30:35:10 - 00:30:57:13
Unknown
So there's a lot of education that needs to happen across all of those products to then sort of drive that desire and intent to purchase. So that is key, a key part of the strategy. And that's a bit that that we will be expanding on a lot more and layering in a lot more products with it. And then everything sort of trickles and flows down from there to ensure consistency and visibility.

00:30:57:17 - 00:31:21:09
Unknown
But yeah, it's been a crucial part. How has the commission structure catered for that? Obviously can be a bit of a mixed bag with content. And so like, what does the program look like in terms of sort of the commission structure of the question? So content. So we look at different, you know, like traditional different commissions for different publisher types.

00:31:21:11 - 00:31:46:02
Unknown
We manually one of the things is we manually review every single partner to make sure that they are on instead of self-declaration. It's a manual review process to make sure that everyone sort of matches up to to what or what what value we deem that they're bringing in terms of partner type. And then outside of that, for content partners specifically, because there is so much leakage from top of funnel, it does tend to be a hybrid deal.

00:31:46:06 - 00:32:05:09
Unknown
So you do tend to look at if you're going straight play. It tends to be a tendency fee and also gifting to get to get the trust and to build that that awareness. So tenancy fee plus CPA. However, we found really great success using CPC campaigns with Lyngby. So that adds in another layer to it as well.

00:32:05:09 - 00:32:31:22
Unknown
So it's a different, different budgeting model, but that works really nicely for content partners in particular, where they measure which advertiser they're going to go with based on earnings per click. So they look at earnings per click. And they know at least with like a CPC partner, they've got a guaranteed earnings per click. And then if they know that product or that message performs, they'll then keep it on and then keep their CPA off the back of it because they know that they will get a return off it.

00:32:31:22 - 00:32:51:06
Unknown
So the the CPC approach is really great for securing those placements and then their performance maintains them. Yeah, yeah. And I think again, if you're working towards a blended for the program, you can kind of play around with commission rates and that sort of thing to make sure that you're getting what you need, like as a, as a whole.

00:32:51:08 - 00:33:09:18
Unknown
Yeah. That was an of an eye opener actually went on a bell, showed me what people were, declared their typos and what they actually were. Yeah. And sort of how we were probably overpaying a little bit for some areas of what we were doing. Yeah. So this month is the first month since the changes have been in effect.

00:33:09:20 - 00:33:33:06
Unknown
Yeah. To actually probably get the structure right, so we'll know in the next sort of 4 or 5 weeks how that's affected things. But it seems to be a going okay at the minute. Yeah, absolutely. And that's a really important point. So an optimized optimized commission structure. And like working with more sort of topple funnel partners, it doesn't necessarily mean increasing your investment in the channel.

00:33:33:10 - 00:33:56:05
Unknown
It's reviewing what your investment is across all partner types and then making sure you're freeing up budget to use elsewhere. So whilst we we may say see a change in terms of partner composition and the activities that we're doing, we keep a really strong I in terms of program, Roas and investment to look at how that is. So it doesn't always necessarily mean that you have to spend more.

00:33:56:06 - 00:34:18:00
Unknown
It's more just redirecting where that budget is going. But then, you know, because it's affiliate and it's CPA, if it goes really well and your sales go up, you are paying more still. But that's obviously a good outcome. Yeah, yeah. If you reports as well that you can use from a, cross-channel attribution perspective to just see where like maybe a content partners played a role.

00:34:18:01 - 00:34:39:00
Unknown
Absolutely. Yeah. In an affiliate transaction. So I think they help as well. Just to your point about, yeah. Like it just sort of bolsters the value perception of like there's a performer part is even if it's not necessarily what you say, in the transaction piece, but I think they've done some testing in the US around just being able to transact through ChatGPT.

00:34:39:04 - 00:34:58:21
Unknown
And I think a lot of people were not keen on putting their card details in, which totally. And it almost kind of ties in with like your journey, like the Kleva brands journey in like that trust aspect and like maybe like part of that core audience not keen on by an online they'd rather call off. Yeah, we still have, 15% of our sales through the phone.

00:34:59:00 - 00:35:27:02
Unknown
Really? How interesting. Yeah, yeah, but it's almost like that same mentality, isn't it, where I, I don't think I'd be comfortable right now. And I work in digital, putting my card details into, you know, an AI agent right now. So yeah, I do wonder if that trust piece will, you know, sort of level itself out or if there'll be some sort of educational piece around sort of, like data protection from the AI agents to sort of help alleviate those concerns a little bit.

00:35:27:03 - 00:35:49:14
Unknown
But it is really interesting. And obviously we're watching with keen interest as the affiliate channel. So yeah, it's definitely coming. Like the so the the checkout in ChatGPT. I was reading, they sort of rolled back, back temporarily because it wasn't getting the same take up as they anticipated. And I don't think that's a reflection of there not being a demand for it.

00:35:49:14 - 00:36:13:16
Unknown
I just think that the the solution came before people were ready for it. So I think there will be an I agree with you. It's absolutely coming. Like in terms of like short term focus is ensuring that you've got visibility in there and how affiliate in your content strategy can support that. But longer term, it absolutely is going to be checking out in ChatGPT, which I'm really excited about how everything is changing.

00:36:13:18 - 00:36:50:05
Unknown
So we'll be keen to see in sort of like 12, 12, 24 what that means for websites and what does the role of the website play? If the brand storytelling isn't done on the website anymore, it's going to be done on all these third party sites who are verifying all of your claims and your specific products. So it's a very interesting time for the landscape from a from a Kleva brands perspective, though, presumably, again, just talking short term because, you know, long term is still, you know, TBC technically, is visibility in is important to you and what does that kind of.

00:36:50:07 - 00:37:18:11
Unknown
Obviously we know that we can tap into certain affiliate types to, to support that. But is that kind of something that you're like, yeah, I'm keen and actually definite channels. You know, one of one of the tactics that we're using here. Yes, 100% like Bella just said, with the I've got a reference link be again, because that's the main one we at the minute, the articles that they've been putting up are perfect for AI to scrape and go through their, I think, their big selling point.

00:37:18:11 - 00:37:37:05
Unknown
We actually met them at the same day we met you. Yeah. That commission factory event, was the muddy body article. They did. And they got picked up everywhere. And we've seen, our traffic increase from AI as well since we've been working with them. Yeah. Yeah. It's you could actually see it. And it's only going to get bigger.

00:37:37:06 - 00:38:04:10
Unknown
So, Annabel, what trends are you seeing in the Australian affiliate market right now? I know we've talked about sort of AI. Anything else or any extensions of that pays for you as an agency. Yeah. So we are seeing much greater fragmentation within the landscape. Yeah. And a much a move across the whole industry to that much deeper definition of success.

00:38:04:12 - 00:38:26:15
Unknown
So I think there's a there's certainly been an increase in the level of education and awareness on how to use the channel and the expectations with it. And we're seeing that kind of across the board now, brands or advertisers that we're partnering with or we're looking to work together. There is that understanding already, and a much greater move to upper funnel and leveraging the full funnel as opposed to the bottom.

00:38:26:17 - 00:38:46:24
Unknown
So overall, I'd say we're seeing the Australian landscape is really matured, over the last 12 months. Yeah, I think when I arrived in Australia ten years ago, I think at that point we were certainly saying, oh, you know, the Australian digital landscape is, you know, sort of five years behind the UK. I don't think we can. I don't think we can fairly say that anymore.

00:38:47:00 - 00:39:30:00
Unknown
I think part of that can be attributed to Australians being the biggest advocates for sort of iPhone usage. And I think at one point they had the the fastest, uptake of sort of mobile shopping out of any westernized, region. So and I think that's just really helped the digital, progressed to the point where we are now and I think really like there isn't a difference between the UK and the US and Australia and actually, like, you know, probably the other markets are going to disagree with me, but I'd say that Australia leads in some aspects, particularly in the financial sectors and banking, because those banking apps have been around much, much

00:39:30:00 - 00:39:48:07
Unknown
longer than, as you all know, Annabel. Well, you both know like, technology in the banking sector, much, much more advanced here. And I think again. People are out and about their on their phones. And so shopping through mobile is just second nature to Australians and always has been like less so than sort of laptops. So yeah.

00:39:48:08 - 00:40:16:13
Unknown
Great column for you. From a future scaping perspective. Where do you want to take the affiliate program? Keep pushing that awareness piece. That's the big thing for us. Reaching new audiences, showing new things to our current demographics. And just being on platforms that we haven't been before. Our main advertising platform for years has been TV, which everyone knows is a shrinking market.

00:40:16:15 - 00:40:39:24
Unknown
You guys probably don't have an aerial in your house. I don't. Not many people in our office do. And while there's still a place for our demographic, we need to be future proofed against the different platforms that people are on for, like future. For us, what I'm excited to see is the continuation of that, the zero click that we were talking about in the role of content partners.

00:40:40:01 - 00:41:04:06
Unknown
But we're also seeing a change in the Australian landscape, specifically in terms of, partner diversity and a lot more happening within the influencer piece as well. A lot, a lot of new partners coming into markets to help with, feed performance influencer and to make that a really powerful part of affiliate programs over here. So bringing brand messaging and performance messaging together.

00:41:04:08 - 00:41:25:09
Unknown
Yeah. Which you can do really effectively. So we're going to see a lot more of that. And then of course, when TikTok shop, comes over here, that's going to be years later. Yeah. Just explained how we're not five years behind in some some of that's not our choice. We use all the tools that we have.

00:41:25:11 - 00:41:43:08
Unknown
And unfortunately, not all the tools get rolled out here straight away. I think that's going to be massive when it comes to. Absolutely. And that will give rise to a lot of other platforms as well. Thanks so much for joining us on this episode of a win win marketing podcast. Now. So how did you actually find taking over the reins as host today?

00:41:43:10 - 00:41:50:23
Unknown
Oh, it was it was my pleasure. Thanks for having me. I hope you invite me back. We'll see.

00:41:51:00 - 00:41:55:21
Unknown
I was going to say your silence reeks, Rob. So.

00:41:55:23 - 00:42:26:10
Unknown
Were there any actual kind of, like, highlights or, like, key moments from the interview that you, which stood out for you? Oh, there were loads. And it was it was a really great conversation. I think just the overall highlight for me was hearing sort of from from both Calman, from Annabel, how they really harnessed sort of content within their strategy to help push that product message in the absence of, you know, I guess, TV and that that offline more descriptive piece.

00:42:26:12 - 00:42:57:10
Unknown
But they're obviously working really nicely with some of, our content networks and large content partners to sort of translate that strategy into their affiliate program. I thought that was it was really interesting to hear how they were executing that. Yeah, definitely. Well, as a listener, if you'd like to watch some of the highlights from the interview, you can head over to a YouTube channel where we are publishing videos and clips from all of the episodes of this season, so go and check that out.

00:42:57:12 - 00:43:22:06
Unknown
And in the meantime, look out for the next episode featuring an interview recorded back in London at a think tank conference with the publisher. Top cashback and the tracking solution Moon Pool. That's right. And don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you don't miss that episode in two weeks time. Until then, thanks again for listening to a win win marketing podcast where we show you how affiliate marketing always offers you a win win.